Church Kitchen Rentals Not Legal???

Business By SugarplumStudio Updated 21 Mar 2007 , 9:58pm by dazey1050

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SugarplumStudio Posted 18 Mar 2007 , 6:55pm
post #1 of 17

Hi everyone. How is this for a bummer:

I'm really unhappy with my current rental arrangments, so I've been researching the church kitchen rental route.
I've gotten responses from several churches who turned me down and all of them on the same point. Churches are non-profit, so by law can't generate an income as a landlord by renting out their kitchens, even if they are attached to social halls that can be rented out. Renting the halls falls under an 'event' category so is therefore exempt from the non-profit issue.
I've never heard of this. I can't imagine that all of the churches you ladies are renting from either don't know this or are choosing not to enforce it for the extra income. I tried the barter route, but I think it just sounds too 'on the sly' for a church.
It's probably a stupid NJ law. Nothing makes me angrier than the fact that food license laws vary so much from state to state. All I did was move across the river from PA, for crying out loud. Nothing has changed about the way I work!!!! UGH!
Isn't this the most ridiculous thing ever?! No wonder so many people do this unlicensed.

16 replies
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indydebi Posted 18 Mar 2007 , 7:04pm
post #2 of 17

I asked this question when I took my Food Handling Cert Class. If they are not in business to sell food, they can set up a warming kitchen and are not required to be health dept approved. My local parks dept is set up that way. All 3 of their facilities have wonderful kitchens, completely set up like a full commercial kitchen, but they are considered warming kitchens so they are not health dept approved.

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wendysue Posted 18 Mar 2007 , 7:09pm
post #3 of 17

Wow, I didn't realize this. Good to know, but unfortunate. I'd planned on speaking to my church about using their kitchen for wedding cakes, if I were ever so inclined to start a business. Bummer. icon_cry.gif

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indydebi Posted 18 Mar 2007 , 7:16pm
post #4 of 17

I wasn't aware of this for a long time. So it's always good to ask, not only "do you rent out your kitchen?" but also "Is it health dept approved?"

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bethola Posted 18 Mar 2007 , 7:28pm
post #5 of 17

SugarPlumStudio: Don't know anything about NJ; but my church kitchen IS legal. Don't know if you want to do this on a full time basis or not, but, have you discussed with the church that you would make a donation (instead of rental) for each time you use the kitchen?

Beth in KY

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heavensgaits Posted 18 Mar 2007 , 7:33pm
post #6 of 17

Before you give up on using your church, check with them and ask the questions that IndyDebi suggested. I know that my church kitchen is health department approved. I know of a caterer that rents time in the kitchen. Ask questions. Different states have different laws, including non-profit laws. We've already seen that with the differing laws regarding home baking.

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Sugar_Plum_Fairy Posted 18 Mar 2007 , 7:53pm
post #7 of 17

SPStudio, do the churches have schools connected to them (the parish)? Maybe an alternative would be using the school's kitches. I'm thinking that when I'm ready - down the road of trying to ask my pastor. The only kitchen that I believe they have for functions is next door in the school.

Also, when it comes to NJ, I found the Health Dept. that services my area and printed out the requirements for applying for a license. It's the New Jersey State Sanitary Code - Chapter XII Sanitation in Retail Food Establishments and Food and Beverage Vending Machines: (Effective Date July 6, 1993).

I don't know if this is the same for all areas in NJ (can't see why not though) but I'll try to link the site here. It's a PDF file: http://www.bernardshealth.org/Homepages/Document/Chapter%202012.pdf I haven't finished reading it yet, but so far it seems that a home business is possible with the installation and proper maintainance of a commercial kitchen.

Can't tell you how long it took me to track that down on the net, but I'd rather do it this way than speak to the beaurocrats and get the royal "runaround".

-Grace

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notjustcake Posted 18 Mar 2007 , 8:03pm
post #8 of 17

wow good to know my church turned me down cause their kitchen does not have a licensed kitchen although it is commercial size I was going to call other churches although the guy with the health department said it was fine as long as the facility had an State license kitchen

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SugarplumStudio Posted 19 Mar 2007 , 1:06am
post #9 of 17

Thanks ladies,
Thank for the info SPFairy. I know what you mean about the NJ runaround! I tried to speak with the township, but I'm afraid that if I push the issue, it will tick off the wrong people. No one seems willing to lend assistance.
I'm at a crossroads with the idea of putting out the money to modify my home. Not sure if it's worth the investment, property-wise..thinking resale down the road. I don't want to make changes that will affect the value.
Anyway, I'm sorry if I frightened anyone. My post was more of a question than a statement. I'm didn't mean to question the legality of anyoone's current arrangment. I'm sure that your churches aren't lying...at least I would hope not! icon_smile.gif I was just wondering if anyone else had gotten the same information. I'm sure that it varies from state to state like anything else.

Thanks again for your input!

Sharon

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Sugar_Plum_Fairy Posted 19 Mar 2007 , 2:03am
post #10 of 17

Sharon, may I ask what Twp you're in? Maybe, not making any promises, but maybe I can root around on the net and find some information that might help. Just remembe it took me a couple of months to find the information pertaining to my town. lol

Gotta love how "they" do this. My theory is that they make the information as difficult as possible to get as to dissuade people from operating retail food establishments. Maybe so it's less work for them (licenses, inspections, etc.)?

-Grace

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acookieobsession Posted 19 Mar 2007 , 12:19pm
post #11 of 17

You know I had a church tell me the same thing. My aunt who is the accountant for her church in GA said this is not true. She sent me some information on this. I will look it up and get back to you.

Thanks

Julia

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cinnabrst Posted 19 Mar 2007 , 8:17pm
post #12 of 17

I've encountered this at all churches I've ever talked to. The one I ended up using just said that my hourly fee would be a "donation" to the church.

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mkolmar Posted 19 Mar 2007 , 8:47pm
post #13 of 17

I am licensed through my church kitchen in Ohio. I was inspected and passed. In Ohio you are allowed to do this. I think it's because they allow the cottage law where most states don't. I live in MI (just over the line and couldn't get licensed here so my church is letting me use there kitchen instead)

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mkolmar Posted 19 Mar 2007 , 8:52pm
post #14 of 17

Almost forgot to say that I pay my church for renting it also. I just tac it on to my tithe, because I've been a member of the church since birth and I volunteer a lot they don't really want me to pay anything, but I refuse to do that.

Do you think that if you were a member of the same church they are less likely to say no?

I know that the church I belong to would say no if someone they had no clue who they where tried to rent. They had a problem in the past with this and are leery now.

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jmt1714 Posted 19 Mar 2007 , 9:01pm
post #15 of 17

[quote="SugarplumStudio" Churches are non-profit, so by law can't generate an income as a landlord by renting out their kitchens, even if they are attached to social halls that can be rented out. [/quote]

not-for-profits are so named because the primary intent of the organization is not to turn a profit (as would a normal business) but the law does NOT prevent them from making a profit. Many of them make quite a bit of money above and beyond their expenses each and every year.

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southaustingirl Posted 20 Mar 2007 , 7:02pm
post #16 of 17

yeah, sometimes non-profit organizations don't know what 'non-profit' really means. Lots of church charge a fee for people to use their facilities for weddings and conferences, etc. I work for a non-profit organization and we are always looking for ways to make money!! We need to!!

Maybe the laws are different in your state.....and ultimately it's up to the individual church to say 'yes' to you about renting their kitchen.

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dazey1050 Posted 21 Mar 2007 , 9:58pm
post #17 of 17

This is likely a tax law issue, not a Health Department license one (unless they aren't licensed anyway). They are just trying to be extra careful about maintaining their tax exemptions, federal and state. Income from leasing space (which is not their "business") could be subject to tax, which they don't want the hassle of dealing with, and depending on state laws, allowing someone to use their property to make a profit could cause problems for state tax exemptions.

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