Meringue Based Buttercream Confusion!

Decorating By aandsmommy Updated 19 Apr 2007 , 1:15pm by berryblondeboys

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aandsmommy Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 2:31am
post #1 of 36

I need some serious help with buttercream. I usually make a buttercream with milk, butter, and powdered sugar. It is okay...nothing great. I am not a fan of shortening buttercreams, both for the taste and the trans fats. I would like to venture into meringue buttercream, which I have made in the past, but have never used with fondant. Soooo...

Question 1: Can meringue buttercreams be used with fondant?

Question 2: If yes, and MMF cannot be refrigerated, then how is this done? Don't meringue based buttercreams need to be refrigerated? I always make my cakes the night before they are do and leave them out...would I be able to do this with a meringue buttercream underneath?

Question 3: Can I sub powdered egg whites for fresh egg whites? Would this make it more stable and would I be able to keep it out longer?

Thanks so much!
Anita

35 replies
nglez09 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
nglez09 Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 2:34am
post #2 of 36

1. Yes

2. MMF can be refrigerated. And meringue-based icings do not HAVE to be refrigerated; they can be left out for quite some time.

3. No

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shelbur10 Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 2:40am
post #3 of 36

Actually I have heard of people using meringue powder instead of egg whites, but it can add an unpleasant flavor. I have made IMBC and left it at room temp for a couple of days (probably longer than I should have) and it was fine.

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paolacaracas Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 2:41am
post #4 of 36

merengue buttercream under fondant is the way I do it, it works like a charm, and it can be out of the fridge for up to two days

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aandsmommy Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 2:42am
post #5 of 36

Thank you so much! The reason I thought MMF could not be refrigerated is that mine has broken down in the past when I put it in the fridge with buttercream underneath...almost as if they were eating away at each other.

But knowing that I can keep it out for a bit, really helps...is this because of the sugar content or because the egg whites get cooked?

Thanks again!

Edited to add...anyone have a recipe...I know there are some in the recipe box...is that what everyone uses?

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nglez09 Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 2:47am
post #6 of 36

You could PM ShirleyW, she knows a lot about meringue-based BCs. Would you like the IMBC from Toba Garrett's book?

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whyteicing Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 3:04am
post #7 of 36

whenever i put a cake covered with MMF into the fridge it sweats really, really bad. so sticky ive had to redo a cake before.

today i frosted a cake in IMBC, and covered it in a 50/50 blend of satin ice and choco pan fondant.

it worked beautifully.

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whyteicing Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 3:06am
post #8 of 36

you can replace the fresh shell egg whites with a carton of pastuerized egg whites.

make sure the box says 'just whites' -not 'reduced calorie' or 'egg beaters' or anything.

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bethola Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 3:11am
post #9 of 36

I've made IMBC (CC recipe) clients LOVED it! But, have also used French Buttercream Recipe from Duff (Food TV website) and LOVED it too! When I don't have time to make the syrup for the IMBC, I do the French BC. I also use approx. one cup of powdered sugar at the end to stabilize the icing. Works like a charm!

Beth in KY

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ShirleyW Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 3:20am
post #10 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by nglez09

You could PM ShirleyW, she knows a lot about meringue-based BCs. Would you like the IMBC from 's book?




Volunteering me are you Nick? icon_biggrin.gif

I too have left buttercream out for a day or two, it will lose it's crispness and soften a bit but it doesn't melt unless you do a wedding cake in July when it's 117 degrees, don't ask how I know. icon_rolleyes.gif Here is the recipe I use. I cut the amount of butter to 3 sticks or 12 oz. because it was just too buttery to me with a full lb. of butter.
http://forum.cakecentral.com/cake_recipe-2426-Italian-Meringue-Buttercream--Shirleys-Method.html

I don't use MMF but this icing holds up well with Fondx fondant.

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Sugar_Plum_Fairy Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 3:36am
post #12 of 36

I actually just made my very first batch of Swiss Meringue Buttercream this evening. It was much more simple than I had thought it would be. I got the recipe from my instructor, Antoinette Hartman, whom is teaching Cake Decorating 201 at Kings Cooking Studio - Kings Supermarket in both Bedminster and Short Hills locations; a two session class. It's very good, IMHO.

Here it is: Swiss Meringue Buttercream (Yield: 1-1/4 pounds)

2 Tbsp just whites with 6 Tbsp water or 1/2 cup egg whites
6 ounces granulated white sugar
1/2 pound (8 oz) unsalted butter, room temp.
1 tsp vanilla

1. Combine egg whites or Just Whites in the large bowl of an electric mixer. Whisk to combine. Place bowl over a pan of simmering water (be sure the pan seals well over the top of the pan below).

2. Whisk the sugar until it dissolves completely and does not feel gritty to the touch. The temperature of the mixture should reach 120 degrees.

3. Meanwhile, beat the butter util it is completely smooth (it is crucial that no lumps remain). Beat in vanilla. (Or if desired, vanilla can be added at the last step.)

4. Remove the bowl from the heat and begin to whip. Whip until mixture is cool, approximately 6 minutes.

5. Slowly add about two tablespoons of the beaten butter to the cooled sugar/eg white mixture and whip until incorporated. Addd more butter and continue beating until buttter is used up. Continue beating for 2-5 minutes, scraping the sides of the bowl to ensure thorough mixing. Beat only until the buttercream is smooth. (Buttercream may separate during beating but additional whipping should bring it together.)

Swiss Meringue Buttercream will hold well at room temperature for several hours or refrigerated for about one week. Warm to room temperature before using if refrigerated. Can be re-beaten.

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JanH Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 3:37am
post #13 of 36

Another meringue base thread:
(IMBC and egg white safety)

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-137101-.html

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mrsright41401 Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 3:52am
post #14 of 36

I love Swiss Meringue Buttercream *swoon*

Rachel

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aandsmommy Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 4:43am
post #15 of 36

Wow...I leave for a few hours and come back to a wealth of information! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I really appreciate all the help. I will be trying one of these this week...I cannot wait!

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aandsmommy Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 1:07pm
post #16 of 36

Another quick question...can this be frozen? How long? Refrigerated? How long?

I have a customer who wants a pear flavored buttercream...She does not want liquer as it will be served to children. I bought some pear preserves...Can I add it to this type of buttercream?

Thanks again.
Anita

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lcdmarie Posted 1 Mar 2007 , 7:40pm
post #17 of 36

I would like to know that too. ;0

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kristiezen920 Posted 2 Mar 2007 , 3:09pm
post #18 of 36

I have added preserves to my imbc many times. Ive never used pear but I dont see why it wouldnt work. However, I know in the cake bible it says dont use pineapple in imbc or it will curdle. I haave added raspberry and strawberry and apple butter without problems. The strawberry and raspberry tends to streak so I solved that by adding a small amout of buttercream to the preserves and whipping til fully incorporated then added that to the full amount of buttercream.

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kristiezen920 Posted 2 Mar 2007 , 3:13pm
post #19 of 36

You can also use those flavored syrups that you find in coffee shops. This gives an intese flavor without adding liquor to the product. Also I have frozen my imbc many times. You have to bring it to room temp before rebeating. It will be very loose and runny at first but keep beating and it will come together. I have also added small amounts of powdered sugar to my imbc for stabilization. not too much though or it will change the flavor.

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kisha311 Posted 2 Mar 2007 , 3:23pm
post #20 of 36

Shirley,

In the recipe you referred to, it says to whip the egg whites until stiff peaks form, how do you know what the peaks look like? I have seen my egg whites turn to foam, is that what you mean? I have wondered about this for some time and would like to venture out and make a meringue based icing this weekend.

Thanks.

By the way, I didn't mean to hijack the post!

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kristiezen920 Posted 2 Mar 2007 , 4:01pm
post #21 of 36

Whipping egg whites can be a tricky thing. Eggs are best to seperate when cold. Less likely for the yolk to break into them. But whites are much more stable when whipped at room temp. Your bowl and whip must be super clean and grease free, no goldfish(small drops of yolk in your whites). A meringue will be much more stable if the speed of the whisks are brought up slowly. If using a stand mixer, start out whipping at 4-6 speed, your whites will start to get foamy after several minutes (it will look like bubbly dish liquid. Bring your mixer up to the next speed. When your whites start to look like a bowl full of loose bubles (with hardly any of the liquidy whites at the bottom) it is time to add your cream of tartar. This will help to further stabilize. Bring the speed of the mixer up higher and whip until soft peaks form. You can tell its at soft peaks when you lift the beater off the surface and a peak will come up but fall over slightly at the top. This is the time to add your granulated sugar(not your boiled sugar). You have to work quikly at this point because it goes from soft to stiff peaks very quickly. your boiled sugar should be at around the temp you want it at this point.
Bring your mixer up to the highest speed. Stiff peaks are when you lift the beater off the surface and the whites stand up at a peak without falling over. This is when you want to add your boiled sugar. Mixing at highest speed.
You dont want your whites to go too far past stiff peaks before adding your boiled sugar. you can tell its gone too far when the whites have started forming "pillows". This is when your bowl of whites start to look like a bowl of partially melted marshmallows.
If your boiled sugar is not up to temp by the time your whites are at stiff peaks you can back off your mixer and turn it down to low. But you dont want to turn your mixer off for any length of time and leave the whites sit or they will deflate considerably.
It seems like a lot of work but once you do it a few times it will come easily and the end product is so well worth the effort!!!

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aandsmommy Posted 2 Mar 2007 , 7:38pm
post #22 of 36

One more question...when adding a flavoring...how much liquid can you add?

OK...one more...do people like this frosting? I know so many people who like supermarket or canned frosting...wondering if the taste, time and effort would be lost on them.

And Kristie...thanks for the egg white primer!

Thanks.

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kisha311 Posted 2 Mar 2007 , 7:45pm
post #23 of 36

kristiezen920 - Thanks soooo much for your careful explanation. it all makes sense now. icon_biggrin.gif I am not so scared to try this anymore now, so I will keep my fingers crossed!

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ShirleyW Posted 2 Mar 2007 , 7:58pm
post #24 of 36

Italian meringue or Swiss meringue are an aquired taste for people who have grown up on powdered sugar based icing. But there is such a difference, the meringue icings are light and fluufy in texture, less sweet and they go on so smoothly when you ice your cakes. I love IMBC on a cake served just as it reaches room temperature, too cold and it is buttery, too soft and it really doesn't taste like much, just sweet, buttery. But when it reaches just the perfect temperature it is elegant! I just can't eat powdered sugar/Crisco based icing anymore, it seems gritty to me, has a greasy mouth feel and overpoweringly sweet.

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paolacaracas Posted 2 Mar 2007 , 11:32pm
post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShirleyW

I just can't eat powdered sugar/Crisco based icing anymore, it seems gritty to me, has a greasy mouth feel and overpoweringly sweet.



This is so true once you had the real thing you can never go back to the crisco based anymore!!

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Sugarbunz Posted 3 Mar 2007 , 1:15am
post #26 of 36

I'm a little late to this thread but I wanted to say that I substituted meringue powder for egg whites and it came out as I was envisioning in my head that meringue based buttercream should be like, as far as texture goes. I didn't like the taste, but I don't think it was due to the powder, just due to the fact I am used to the super sweet buttercream. It is definately A LOT less sweet, it tasted less sweet than whipped cream icings to me.

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kristiezen920 Posted 3 Mar 2007 , 7:03pm
post #27 of 36

aandsmommy
the amount of liquid that you add certainly depends on the recipe your using and the yield amt of buttercream for the recipe. Personally, I just guesstimate. It doesnt take too much flavoring to change the taste. You just have to experiment. Add the flavor a little at a time and taste it. The buttercream will hold much more liquid than you think it will.
The only problem I have ever had is when I have added melted chocolate. The chocolate has to be at just the right temp. Too warm and it will melt your buttercream, then you have to chill it before you can use it. Too cold and it will lump up leaving little bits of chocolate in your bc. Also if you add alot of chocolate it can cause your buttercream to crack after the cake is frosted. But I have added anything from liquor to jams and preserves, chocolate, cream cheese, Ive even folded chopped chocolate covered cherries into the bc for a filling.
I have found that imbc or fbc is the most devine thing in the world and I would never (never say never) use anything else!!

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aandsmommy Posted 5 Mar 2007 , 6:12am
post #28 of 36

thanks kristie...i am making some tomorrow...wish me luck!

this thread is awesome.
anita

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Naty Posted 5 Mar 2007 , 1:47pm
post #29 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by kisha311

Shirley,

In the recipe you referred to, it says to whip the egg whites until stiff peaks form, how do you know what the peaks look like? I have seen my egg whites turn to foam, is that what you mean? I have wondered about this for some time and would like to venture out and make a meringue based icing this weekend.

Thanks.

By the way, I didn't mean to hijack the post!




I have learned from another cake decorator that when the tip of the merengue falls slightly over when you lift the beaters.....think of it as the consistency of hair mouse.

Naty

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Naty Posted 5 Mar 2007 , 1:51pm
post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by aandsmommy

Another quick question...can this be frozen? How long? Refrigerated? How long?

I have a customer who wants a pear flavored buttercream...She does not want liquer as it will be served to children. I bought some pear preserves...Can I add it to this type of buttercream?

Thanks again.
Anita




This sould delicious! What flavor cake are you doing?

Naty

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