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What do you put between layers and crumb coat under fondant?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
I'm making my first tiered cake. (12"&8") I've done fondant cakes before and had issues with the fondant sliding down the sides of the cake. Someone told me it was because I used all butter buttercream icing. (Which I love the taste of!) so the last fondant covered cake I made, I kept in the fridge until party time.
However, this time it will be about 3 hours between when I leave my house with the cake and when it's served. Someone told me to use an all-shortening buttercream w/artifical butter-vanilla flavor, and not to refrigerate the cake. I did a test run and I don't like the taste AT ALL. And I'm pretty scared of leaving the cake out- how far in advance can you do the cake then? I make my own marshmallow fondant.
Any help or advice would be much appreciated!!
post #2 of 22
I can tell you for sure that it isn't your all butter buttercream that is the problem. A ton of bakers use all butter BC under their fondant.

How thick is your BC under your fondant? I have never used marshmallow fondant so I can't help there, but if your BC is to thick that may be a reason the fondant is sliding.

ETA: my cakes are finished a day before and boxed up ready to go. I don't refrigerate mine.
post #3 of 22
How does fondant slide off a cake?
post #4 of 22
Maybe her cake is settling and so her fondant is bunching, which looks like sliding? Kitchenchick- do you have a picture? Also, are you letting your cake settle before you cover with fondant?
post #5 of 22
Thread Starter 
The BC between the cake layers and on the crumb coat gets soft and oozes out from under the fondant, creating a sliding effect where the fondant bunches up at the bottom. It does not happen when I keep my cake refrigerated because my icing stays hard. But when I leave it out to room temp, it softens and the fondant slides down the side if the cake, so it's def the buttercream. (When I've ordered cakes from professional bakeries in the past, they we told me if you order buttercream, the cake must be keep refrigerated, so I know its common.)
So I'm wondering what others use as an icing under fondant that will be stable at room temp.
post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 
By settling, do you mean letting the cake sit w/crumb coat for a day before covering in fondant? If so, yes.
post #7 of 22
If you're letting it sit in the refrigerator it isn't going to settle. It needs to sit at room temp, or you can go Leahs route and use a heavy book/tile on top of the cake to speed up the process.

Sounds like your buttercream needs to be stiffer if it isn't a cake settling problem. But no, if you're using an all butter american buttercream it doesn't have to stay in the fridge. If you're using a meringue BC it does, but I assume you were using american since you're subbing with shortening.
post #8 of 22
I buttercream between layers and create a dam with ganache, them ganache the sides and top. This should contain your bc and protect it from heat?
Speech therapist by day and cake decorator when I can fit it in! Not a business, just a love of all things cake! www.facebook.com/CakeChemistryUK
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Speech therapist by day and cake decorator when I can fit it in! Not a business, just a love of all things cake! www.facebook.com/CakeChemistryUK
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post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaeRodriguez View Post

Sounds like your buttercream needs to be stiffer if it isn't a cake settling problem.

Thank you so much for the advice. Would you mind sharing your BC recipe that you don't refrigerate?

What's the timeline if you're not refrigerating? Party's on Sunday. Cakes are in the freezer now. Thaw and assemble layers on Thursday, let settle overnight; Crumb coat & fondant on Friday; Stack cake tiers & dowel, small fondant/gumpaste/icing details & box on Saturday??
post #10 of 22
My recipe is butter, powdered sugar, heavy cream, and vanilla. I actually got it off of CC's recipe pages but I can't remember the title or author at the moment, sorry! It's just your basic AMBC!

I would thaw, and then ice and crumb coat/let settle/fondant all on Friday. I use the heavy tile settle method and I leave it on for an hour or so. If you want to break it up you can start Thursday but crumb coat it Thursday, you don't want to leave a naked cake out because it will dry out. Fondant Friday, stack and detail Saturday and be ready to go Sunday.
post #11 of 22
Sounds like too much icing. I never refrigerate and use 2:1 icing sugar to butter.
post #12 of 22

The sugar is what makes it stiffer so add more sugar. Does it crust when you leave it sitting out? Also when I used to use ABC I used 1/2 shortening 1/2 butter and real vanilla extract for flavoring. Try the Buttercream Dream recipe on here. It's good (as far as ABC goes)

post #13 of 22

I've used really thin buttercream (1/2 crisco, 1/2 butter) under mine and I've never had a sliding problem.  I do the filling, then the crumb coat, make sure to take off all the excess and then pop it in the fridge for at least a half hour.  Then I put my MMF on it.  Works fine, and I don't have to put it back in the fridge.

Don't be afraid of cake, make cake be afraid of what you will turn it into!

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Don't be afraid of cake, make cake be afraid of what you will turn it into!

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post #14 of 22
Thread Starter 
Thank you SO much for all your advice! This is the biggest cake I've ever made. I ended up using the Buttercream Dream recipe, and did not refrigerate. I let the cakes settle, do[IMG]weled, etc. I still have some bulging issues- maybe I'm using too much frosting between the layers? I tried to spread it thinner than I usually do, but oh well.
post #15 of 22
Thread Starter 
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