HELP! customer stopped payment on cake they already ate! - Page 4

Since the Check 21 Act took effect in 2004 clearing times have been much faster, it allows banks to route checks using digital images instead of shipping the actual check.

This law also allows you to deposit checks remotely just by taking a picture of the check with your phone, many banks now offer this service.

All Check 21 does is make electronic processing possible and saves the banks from having to physically route paper checks all over the place - and also gets them off the hook from mailing your cancelled check originals back to you - Check 21 has nothing to do with the check writer's ability to claim fraud on the check the bank processed electronically. EvMarie is correct. If your bank account is compromised and someone wrote a fraudulent check on your account, the bank can still put a stop on it and you get your money back - and the merchant that cashed the check is SOL - even if it was discovered as long as 30 days after it was cashed.

This is why paper checks are not accepted in many MANY types of transactions, especially ones where time or a date is a factor. You have to get a cashier's check, although those too can be forged (but it's much harder), money orders (although those can still have a stop put on them - it's just WAY harder to do), or a wire transfer, which is 100% guaranteed under the Federal Reserve.

If someone writes fradulent checks from another person's account I would think that the stolen money could be recovered much farther out than 30 days after the transaction, that is completely different from bouncing a check. My comment on Check 21 was about check clearing times, not identity theft. If you are worried about identity theft then no transaction is safe, not even wire transfers.

And if someone does steal another person's checking account they would likely be purchasing durable goods for resale, not cake.

It's not easy to garnish someone's wages. The Federal government can do it if it is owed taxes or you owe child support. Otherwise you would have to find the person's work info and pursue it yourself and many states have garnishment laws where you won't see a dime.

Better to threaten them with theft charges via the prosecutor and get a speedy settlement. Tell them once they pay you they are free to sue you if they want, but they will lose anyway, especially when you have proof as to their fraud.

I used to work in banking so I'm aware of check21 and it's implications. I believe the supervisor lady I spoke with was referring to the longest possibility in "return time". She lead me to believe this wasn't a crazy notion. So, it caused me to think a bit more cautiously about payment....is all.

Jason - I get your point about the shorter time frame. Check21 does allow the money to be processed electronically in an instant. Like when you go to a store, they run your check...the register prints on it and you get it right back. I do believe check processing through this particular credit union is still not as current as that. They still collect piles of paper checks that were deposited on all their days' members' accounts. They get totalled and bundled and sent on to a BANK. This bank then goes through their own processes. The bank probably is in time with the current technology & honestly I am not aware how check21 factors in after they have left the bank...but I do know...that check21 no longer allows for that lag time some people used to count on for "floating". In general, the time is shorter for clearing. BUTTTT, in trying to be 100% thorough in not getting stuck....there are situations where the return time is much longer than 2 weeks. Given that I have a dark cloud that has followed me for a few years now....I will be happy to lean a little more conservatively and ask for cash for final payments if the time frame is narrowing.

I can do that - I'm just a small set up. My customers don't mind. In a bigger super busy set up - I get how that may cause a larger volume of issues to deal with.

It just confirms the idea...to me at least...that you NEED to have ample cushion time when accepting a check. It should be super easy for a customer to request a bank check for guaranteed funds instead of their own personal check. Or, at the very least know which local banks cash the checks drawn on them with no hassle. So, you can make a determination if the money can be recovered asap. There's a bank in town here who won't cash checks drawn on them to non customers. So - you have to go through the waiting game.

I guess these unfortunate situations will happen one way or another. No matter how hard we try to safeguard against them. 100% guaranteed to NEVER get stuck I guess doesn't exist. Shoot....I'm leaning toward cash only! lol.

I realize "cash only" wouldn't be most convenient in some instances...but in last minute situations I always ask nicely for it. And, haven't had any crazy talkin' customers...

Buttercream Warrior, Do you have an update for us?

WOW! Some really great advice. Ya'll have already said everything I was thinking while reading: 1) Never accept a check less than 30 days before event ( I mean for anything over $150). Sure you can do up to 7, but my policy is 30. 2) It ABSOLUTELY is THEFT! File a criminal fraud report. 3) Print out all the wonderful FB comments about your great cake!

The only different suggestion I have is a debatable one. You mentioned FB. Personally, I would write on her wall. "I've tried several times to contact you regarding the stop payment for the payment of your cake. Please call me so we can work together to find an amicable solution." Yes, she can delete it from her wall.

I would also comment on the comments "I'm so glad to hear you enjoyed the cake! When the payment was canceled, I was worried something had gone horribly wrong."

Might be a line you don't want to cross but sure would embarrass her in front of her friends!

Any update?

In the county where I live in NYS, you could absolutely take them to small claims court, add on the court costs & a clause for judgment fees. Once you receive a judgment, you can take it to a local attorney or any attorney who does collections work. They can freeze their bank accounts and garnish their wages!

I have a gf who would go to a debtors address in her mom soccer van and follow them to work. Call the attorney and let them know where to send the wage garnishment. It's not as hard as it sounds! you can also file any judgments against real property in the clerk's office where their property is located. Researching real property at the county clerk's office isn't difficult and it is of "public records". filing a lien on vehicles, equipment, atv's, snowmobiles through the dmv gets a little more difficult, but can absolutely be done! How do you think banks file a lien on your title when you take out a loan??? Most finance and insurance managers at auto dealers know how this is done! Go out and make a new friend today, an f&I manager at a dealership!

Lastly I have a gf who owns a business and she obtained a list of people who write bad checks, I would make sure this lady gets put on your local list!!! Maybe through the local chamber of commerce?

Other than that I agree with everyone else, live and learn. Don't let this bad experience ruin all the great ones! Get $ upfront & make sure your contract includes things to cover your but! Good luck!