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Copyright breakers. So angry I could spit on him - Page 2

post #16 of 30
Not trying to be a stinker here..but isn't Seseme Street copyrighted. You have a very nicely done Elmo and Big Bird cake in your gallery.


I have a couple of character cakes in my own gallery. I live in a glass house. icon_rolleyes.gif


mommachris

wife to David for 25 years
mom to 13 blessings
Nine who are still living at home that range from 22 to 4 years old.
Holly, Amy, Aaron, Evelyn, Zebedee, Melody, William, Melissa and little Tobin
and four more sweet babies in heaven.

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wife to David for 25 years
mom to 13 blessings
Nine who are still living at home that range from 22 to 4 years old.
Holly, Amy, Aaron, Evelyn, Zebedee, Melody, William, Melissa and little Tobin
and four more sweet babies in heaven.

Reply
post #17 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

It's my understanding that the a lot of items in grocery stores bakeries are loss leaders in general, which people don't usually know. There's no way to compete with those prices. You have to compete with quality, but when people are so price-conscious these days, and they're used to having a crappy grocery store cake as the standard, it's going to be harder to convince them that it's worth paying more for a "better" cake if all they're thinking about is how much it costs.


In many areas there is a decently sized mid-market segment of people who want something better than a grocery store cake but don't want to pay the high prices of a premium cake "studio". It's easier to market directly to this segment than it is trying to convert people for whom a grocery store cake is good enough.

Of course there are some areas where this midmarket segment (and even the upmarket segment) is too small to support a viable business, this would be apparent in your business plan.
post #18 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

It's my understanding that the a lot of items in grocery stores bakeries are loss leaders in general, which people don't usually know. There's no way to compete with those prices. You have to compete with quality, but when people are so price-conscious these days, and they're used to having a crappy grocery store cake as the standard, it's going to be harder to convince them that it's worth paying more for a "better" cake if all they're thinking about is how much it costs.


In many areas there is a decently sized mid-market segment of people who want something better than a grocery store cake but don't want to pay the high prices of a premium cake "studio". It's easier to market directly to this segment than it is trying to convert people for whom a grocery store cake is good enough.

Of course there are some areas where this midmarket segment (and even the upmarket segment) is too small to support a viable business, this would be apparent in your business plan.



If you're charging what you need to to cover the cost of a decent custom cake, the mid market segment won't necessarily pay enough to make more than minimum wage if you market to that. There are definitely places where the basic grocery store cake is th standard, and there's just nothing you can do to change that. Is hard if you live in a small town (I've lived in tiny towns and huge cities, and there's a difference in how people buy things.)
post #19 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFloGuy

If it's a chain grocery store you should complain to their corporate office. If you don't get a response send a letter directly to the CEO and see if they reply.

In the end it's better not to make yourself crazy over what others are doing.


Contact Pat Hensly at Corporate in Des Moines, IA
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Glenda
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A balanced diet is chocolate in both hands!
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post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

If you're charging what you need to to cover the cost of a decent custom cake, the mid market segment won't necessarily pay enough to make more than minimum wage if you market to that.


Sure it will, if your processes are efficient enough and you limit the complexity of orders. You can be quite profitable at ~$3/serving for relatively simple designs, even with the overhead of a commercial kitchen.
post #21 of 30
Seriously? 12-15K in monthly overhead? That seems like a lot. Perhaps you need to look at a much smaller operation...and perhaps focus on doing wedding cakes where there's more profit and people are less likely to buy at grocery stores. Establish your niche as the premier custom wedding cake baker in your area--then you won't have to worry so much about the copyright issue. Don't throw in the towel...just change direction.

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If I am ever on life support, unplug me...

Then plug me back in.  See if that works!

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post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by howsweet


If any person was in a position where they had to compete with that grocery store's cake department, they were going to lose. Period. The reason is that the cake decorating part of the bakery worked as a loss leader.

I realize everyone knows that grocery store cakes are cheap, but wasn't sure people were aware that the store may be intentionally loosing money on them.



I agree. There is no way you can compare your costs to their costs. We have to find other added value in our products. For me it's 100% natural ingredients, and, hands down, the best tasting cakes you can find in the area.

If someone points out the price of a Costco cake vs the price of my cake I turn around and point out that the only natural ingredient in those cakes is the flour, and I agree that their chocolate-banana cake is delish! But it also contains no chocolate OR banana.

It's possible that your local economy can't support you at this time, and for that, I am truly sorry. I have also suffered the pain of sidelining my dream. It really, really sucks.

Jen
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

If you're charging what you need to to cover the cost of a decent custom cake, the mid market segment won't necessarily pay enough to make more than minimum wage if you market to that.


Sure it will, if your processes are efficient enough and you limit the complexity of orders. You can be quite profitable at ~$3/serving for relatively simple designs, even with the overhead of a commercial kitchen.



I hate to break it to you, Jason, but in some towns $3 a serving isn't mid level, it's premium.
post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

I hate to break it to you, Jason, but in some towns $3 a serving isn't mid level, it's premium.


True, it definitely depends on local demographics. If the premium market in an area is only $3/serving then there is no room for a midmarket business.
post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFloGuy

If it's a chain grocery store you should complain to their corporate office. If you don't get a response send a letter directly to the CEO and see if they reply.

In the end it's better not to make yourself crazy over what others are doing.



I agree with what SoFloGuy said especially at the end. Do not drive yourself crazy over this. Move on or it can consume you. I really hope things get better for you soon. I know they will get better for you.
post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by docofthedead

Quote:
Originally Posted by debidehm

"It's one thing when a small bakery is doing it to try to make ends meet, but it is totally different when it is a huge grocery store doing it because they can make an extra buck."
*************************************************************************************
Wouldn't it still be a copyright issue? If it's not ok for a big chain store to do it, why should it be ok for a small bakery to do it "to make ends meet"?



Exactly my thoughts Debi...if it's wrong for one, why would it not be wrong for the other. That sounds like a double standard.



Clearly it's still wrong. I think you might just feel a bit differently about it. A small mom and pop struggling to make ends meet, doing whatever it can to keep the doors open vs a mega mart selling this stuff as a loss leader, doing it for peanuts and getting away with it, not caring a whit.... It isn't any better or worse in fact.....just maybe a bit in flavor.
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post #27 of 30
If I may, I'd like to ask a question about kits a bakery can purchase, in bulk, from cake supply distributors.

Last year, when I first got in to this hobby, I bought a few bakery supply items from a bakery that recently closed its doors. The gal gave me a couple of her catalogs that included various kits that she could buy to use for birthday cakes. They ranged from Spider Man to Transformers to Superman, etc. You'd have to buy the kits in bulk (so like 30 kits per case, for example). The bakery would then bake and decorate the birthday cakes and include the decorations from these kits in their final product, and of course, charge for them to recoup their costs.

If you are a licensed bakery, with the ability to purchase your supplies from a distributor such as this, and buy these kits, are you well within the law then to sell your cakes with these kits?

Last year, when I made my nephew some sugar cookies for his birthday party that I wanted to put the LA Lakers "L" logo on, I went to my local King Soopers (Kroger) grocery store to have them print the edible images for me. While I was waiting for them to finish, I was looking through their "catalog" of cakes they can offer, with all sorts of different copyrighted kits on them. I asked them about it and they said those were the kits they were licensed to sell. So if you do buy the kits through a distributor, who is licensed to sell them, are you extended the same right?

I guess I'm a bit confused by it all. Thanks for your input!

Don't bite off more than you can chew.  One day you may not be able to swallow.

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Don't bite off more than you can chew.  One day you may not be able to swallow.

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First Communion
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Baby Shower
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post #28 of 30
Again, this really isn't about copyrighting being the problem...it's about finding a way to make doing what you love profitable.

What makes you the most money? A birthday cake or a 4-tier wedding cake?

The best way I think (as I mentioned before...and BTW I just saw your awesome 'lovebirds' wedding cake in your gallery) is to become THE bakery brides want to go to first for their wedding cakes and groom's cakes! People know they're going to pay more for a
custom wedding cake...and those that use a grocery store for one are not going to be your customers ever anyway.

Find a way to cut WAY back on your overhead, concentrate your efforts on this one area and maybe later you can branch out into doing other event cakes again...the fun groom's cakes will show your versatility.. Market yourself to the wedding industry in your area! Don't give up your dream, or blame things on grocery stores and copyright infringement. Look at this as an opportunity to continue doing what you love in a more profitable arena. I think you will be very successful if you do. IMO! thumbs_up.gif

If I am ever on life support, unplug me...

Then plug me back in.  See if that works!

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If I am ever on life support, unplug me...

Then plug me back in.  See if that works!

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post #29 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by carmijok

it's about finding a way to make doing what you love profitable.

thumbs_up.gif



I totally agree, Its what I did. Focused on my lollipops and while I was busy with them I gave classes and the cake order started to follow. Marketing and Branding are 2 areas we sometimes miss but can make all the difference in the world between Open & Closed.

I now only work as a commercial bakery, NOT retail. If I don't have an order, the oven doesn't get turned on. We always have orders.
Virginia 323.253.8213
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He is the man of my dreams, my prince; He gives me the desires of my heart, He completes me. His name is Jesus
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Virginia 323.253.8213
www.urbanainez.com
He is the man of my dreams, my prince; He gives me the desires of my heart, He completes me. His name is Jesus
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post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spooky_789

If you are a licensed bakery, with the ability to purchase your supplies from a distributor such as this, and buy these kits, are you well within the law then to sell your cakes with these kits?


Whether you are a licensed bakery or not, copyright law allows you to resell licensed figurines of copyrighted characters (as you would find in a decopac) on their own or as part of a cake without permission, since the copyright owner is already getting a cut. You only need permission if you will be recreating a copyrighted character yourself out of BC or fondant.
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