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Fondant and Cream Cheese should divorce!!!!

post #1 of 16
6/27/12 at 4:36am
Thread Starter 
Ok so maybe this is not a huge disaster and my sister or anyone else really didn't notice.... But to me its not perfect and I'm aiming for perfection (or close enough!). If you look at the Trio of black and white cakes I made, with the flowers and touches of blue, for my sisters birthday.
The smaller cakes were carrot cake with a cream cheese frosting. I used a "crusting" cream cheese frosting recipe so that it remains nice and firm under the fondant. Its winter here so humitidy or heat was not a problem, but it still looked like the frosting shifted or melted under the fondant! It was very bumpy and not a smooth neat finish, which should have been easy to do on a 6" cake! I was going for clean lines, nice smooth cakes but was so disappointed in myself. Even the top edges of the cakes, I could not get nice and sharp even though I made sure the frosting under was as smooth as possible (used the paper towel method)...
I even struggled at the bottom of the cake to get a neat clean look. I was very frustrated and will probably never us this frosting under fondant again... I dont know how others get it right??
What am I doing wrong?
Pearline
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post #2 of 16
6/27/12 at 1:45pm
Cream cheese frosting (even the crusting kind) and Fondant do not go well together. One bad experience was enough for me to say never again.
I must say though, those three cakes are very pretty! icon_smile.gif
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post #3 of 16
6/27/12 at 2:23pm
I use Edna De La Cruz' crusting cream cheese & it works great under fondant. I used it on my four tier wedding cake in my gallery & I didn't have any problems. You can find her recipe at designmeacake.com
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post #4 of 16
6/29/12 at 2:18am
Thread Starter 
Leeanu, thank you for the compliment. I agree, I've tried three times now with cream cheese frosting and failed. The thing is this frosting was delicious (with a splash of fresh orange juice in it) and we love carrot or choc cake with it. So I gotta figure out how to do it.
DChinda- thank you for that tip, I'll try it next time and let you know how it goes. If I can find one that works that would be fantastic.

Thank you!!
Pearline
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post #5 of 16
7/2/12 at 2:54pm
i would never put a cream cheese under fondant. As a filling, yes. But then the outer layer of the cake is going to be ganache (white or dark) for a smooth, firm surface. Our heat is too great to be dealing with something as temperamental as a cream cheese frosting going soft. Not every frosting works in every climate.
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post #6 of 16
7/2/12 at 6:07pm
I guess everyone's experience is different and maybe that is because we may all use different recipes for our cream cheese icing and probably different fondants??

My last 2 cakes were covered & filled with a crusting cream cheese icing recipe I got from a CC member. The one cake just had a fondant border, but the other was covered with fondant. It was for my daughter's bridal shower and I was very concerned when I found out there wasn't any air conditioning where the shower was being held and it was very hot and humid that day. But the cake was set up from 10:30 a.m. until about 2:00 p.m. before it was cut and I had no issues at all with "melting" or "shifting" of the fondant.

Believe me, I kept my eye on that cake because as MOB I was very afraid of it happening and being totally embarrassed for both my daughter and myself! The cake was a 12" square 2 layer cake with a bridal gown cake on top of it (made with the Wilton Wonder Mold) . I made sure it was very cold when I brought it to the venue and I watched as it became VERY shiny from the condensation, but then when it reached room temp, it was dry and completely fine.

I'm sorry you had problems with the icing, but your cakes look awesome! Do you mind sharing what recipe you used for the cream cheese icing and also what fondant you used?
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post #7 of 16
7/3/12 at 1:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by srkmilklady

I guess everyone's experience is different and maybe that is because we may all use different recipes for our cream cheese icing and probably different fondants??

My last 2 cakes were covered & filled with a crusting cream cheese icing recipe I got from a CC member. The one cake just had a fondant border, but the other was covered with fondant. It was for my daughter's bridal shower and I was very concerned when I found out there wasn't any air conditioning where the shower was being held and it was very hot and humid that day. But the cake was set up from 10:30 a.m. until about 2:00 p.m. before it was cut and I had no issues at all with "melting" or "shifting" of the fondant.

Believe me, I kept my eye on that cake because as MOB I was very afraid of it happening and being totally embarrassed for both my daughter and myself! The cake was a 12" square 2 layer cake with a bridal gown cake on top of it (made with the Wilton Wonder Mold) . I made sure it was very cold when I brought it to the venue and I watched as it became VERY shiny from the condensation, but then when it reached room temp, it was dry and completely fine.

I'm sorry you had problems with the icing, but your cakes look awesome! Do you mind sharing what recipe you used for the cream cheese icing and also what fondant you used?



Thanks, the recipe I use is from here..:
1/2 c. shortening (I used Holsum)
1/2 c. salted butter (I used unsalted butter, about 100g)
2 8oz. packages cream cheese, softened
2 lbs. (8 cups) powdered sugar (I used about 4 cups only as it was very thick by the time I added the 4th cup)
1 tsp. vanilla
1/4 tsp. salt

The fondant is store bought from a place I use here, no branding on it, they make it. We don't have Wiltons fondant (Like Satin Ice) for example, available here. Maybe I should try to make my own sometime. Also I don't know if thinner or thicker is better. I rolled to about 1/4 inch.

I used ganache on my latest cake and it was awesome to use. So easy to spread, to get it nice and smooth and putting the fondant on was great, it held its shape so very well.
Please can you share your c/cheese recipe - if it held up so well under such a cake then I definitely want to try it.

p.s. I have only done a few cakes starting this year and just learning as I go, so any advice is welcome.
Pearline
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Pearline
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post #8 of 16
7/3/12 at 1:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by srkmilklady

I guess everyone's experience is different and maybe that is because we may all use different recipes for our cream cheese icing and probably different fondants??

My last 2 cakes were covered & filled with a crusting cream cheese icing recipe I got from a CC member. The one cake just had a fondant border, but the other was covered with fondant. It was for my daughter's bridal shower and I was very concerned when I found out there wasn't any air conditioning where the shower was being held and it was very hot and humid that day. But the cake was set up from 10:30 a.m. until about 2:00 p.m. before it was cut and I had no issues at all with "melting" or "shifting" of the fondant.

Believe me, I kept my eye on that cake because as MOB I was very afraid of it happening and being totally embarrassed for both my daughter and myself! The cake was a 12" square 2 layer cake with a bridal gown cake on top of it (made with the Wilton Wonder Mold) . I made sure it was very cold when I brought it to the venue and I watched as it became VERY shiny from the condensation, but then when it reached room temp, it was dry and completely fine.

I'm sorry you had problems with the icing, but your cakes look awesome! Do you mind sharing what recipe you used for the cream cheese icing and also what fondant you used?



Thanks, the recipe I use is from here..:
1/2 c. shortening (I used Holsum)
1/2 c. salted butter (I used unsalted butter, about 100g)
2 8oz. packages cream cheese, softened
2 lbs. (8 cups) powdered sugar (I used about 4 cups only as it was very thick by the time I added the 4th cup)
1 tsp. vanilla
1/4 tsp. salt

The fondant is store bought from a place I use here, no branding on it, they make it. We don't have Wiltons fondant (Like Satin Ice) for example, available here. Maybe I should try to make my own sometime. Also I don't know if thinner or thicker is better. I rolled to about 1/4 inch.

I used ganache on my latest cake and it was awesome to use. So easy to spread, to get it nice and smooth and putting the fondant on was great, it held its shape so very well.
Please can you share your c/cheese recipe - if it held up so well under such a cake then I definitely want to try it.

p.s. I have only done a few cakes starting this year and just learning as I go, so any advice is welcome.
Pearline
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Pearline
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post #9 of 16
7/3/12 at 7:23am
This is the recipe I use that was posted by carmijok here on CC. The last 2 cakes that I posted in my photos (My Daughter's shower cake & My Mom's 78th birthday.) were done with this cream cheese recipe. The shower cake bottom tier was the one covered with the fondant also, the other one just had the fondant border attached to the cream cheese icing.

carnijok's cream cheese icing recipe...

I use an icing that has cream cheese in it, but it's not as 'loose' as a standard cream cheese frosting. It crusts great too.

2 sticks of real butter (salted) (8 ounces)
1- 8 ounce box of cream cheese
2 lbs powdered sugar.

Cream the softened butter and cream cheese together well, then slowly add the powdered sugar. Mix well. That's it. It tastes great and is my go-to buttercream on all my cakes.


The recipe doesn't show adding any flavoring, but I added it to compliment the cake flavor. I made the recipe as written and it was just perfect and it crusted nicely too.

It was the answer to my problems with cream cheese icing, and if you try it, I hope it works for you.
icon_smile.gif
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post #10 of 16
7/4/12 at 1:11am
Thread Starter 
Thanks!! So simple! I will definitely try it and let you know. The last one I did I added about a tbs of fresh orange juice for flavour, wonder if that had anything to do with it...?

Thanks for taking the time to send this, appreciate it. Your cakes look stunning!
Pearline
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Pearline
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post #11 of 16
7/4/12 at 7:55am
Thanks Pearline...hope the recipe works as well for you. I realize you said you added only a small amount of orange juice for flavor and I don't know if it would make a difference in a large batch of icing, but orange juice is "acidey"...maybe an orange extract for flavor next time instead might be a thought? I use Lorann oils for flavor or if they aren't available to you then just extracts might be better. They do come in several flavors.

Good luck...let us know how it goes for you! thumbs_up.gif
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post #12 of 16
7/9/12 at 3:31am
Thread Starter 
yes you're right! The orange juice MAY have added to the problem... because it wasn't crusting much either, I left it in the fridge for almost 2 hours to crust but no such luck.

Am doing another one next week, will let you know how it goes!
Pearline
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Pearline
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post #13 of 16
7/19/12 at 3:42am
Thread Starter 
SrkMilkLady, so I tried your recipe this weekend. Was doing a birthday cake for my mom and vwanted to use this only as filling. I used orange extract this time for flavour - about 1/2 tsp only.
Unfortunately it didn't even work as a filling. I made it and left it overnight in the fridge to thicken. It didn't thicken up much more the next day though. Anyway I thought it would be ok just as a filling on a small 8" and 6" cake. I did the filling and also added thinly sliced strawberries on the filling and did a dam of ganache around it before sandwiching the cakes.
But the layers slide around so much and that I couldn't ice the outside evenly - even though I'd trimme my cakes and was using the Aussie method to ganache... Sooooo frustrating. I eventually took the cakes apart and scraped off the filling.
My mom suggested that perhaps the branch of cream cheese (Lancewood here) is the problem. Maybe it is too soft a cheese? Maybe it contains a lot of water/liqiud so as I add the icing sugar it gets more and more 'liquidy'.... Ah well, I'll try another brand. Or maybe marscapone next time....

THANKS for the tips, hope to get it right some time!
Pearline
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post #14 of 16
7/19/12 at 8:34am
Oh, I'm so sorry you had problems with the recipe. I never put it in the fridge to thicken...it is already the right consistency after it has been mixed. When I put the leftovers in the fridge it goes almost solid and needs to be brought back to room temp to use. So I find that puzzling.

I guess the brand of cream cheese could be a problem. I've also learned something that others probably already knew, that different brands of butter may also have different levels of water in it. I'm also wondering if the temperature/humidity might also affect the outcome because I used the recipe last week on a cake and it was soooo hot and humid here and I did have a bit of difficulty with getting a smooth finish.

So I did a little research and found this in another thread here on CC about cream cheese icing and it really does make sense, so I am going to try this next time I make the recipe. It's about NOT overbeating.the cream cheese. It is very interesting...

http://bakingbetter.com/2012/05/30/cream-cheese-icing-that-doesnt-suck/

So I guess there could be any number of reasons for the recipe working for some but not for others. I hope you find another that might be better, and if so please let me know. I am always looking to try different recipes for cakes, fillings and frostings.

Good luck Pearline! icon_smile.gif
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post #15 of 16
7/20/12 at 1:06am
Thread Starter 
That'a great link, thanks! YEs it makes perfect sense. I was definitely overbeating hoping for it to fluff up like a buttercream. So it possibly seperated and adding more icing sugar just made it more soupy for sure. THANK YOU! Am going to try it out and let you know. I also did realise that the brand I used is a very soft cream cheese so I gotta find a firmer one.

Thanx and happy baking!!
Pearline
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