Cake Central › Cake Forums › Cake Talk › Cake Decorating Business › The Knot Is At It AGAIN !!!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Knot Is At It AGAIN !!! - Page 3

post #31 of 73
sorry for all of the typos in my last post, I was typing on a ipad, which is another thing that sucks.
post #32 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF


But it's ridiculous to keep encouraging brides to come to ME, who doesn't have a single picture of a sheet cake on my website - in fact I have a paragraph in my FAQs about how I don't make them, and expect me to make them for weddings (at a discount!) because the Knot told them I should and the Knot told them I should be cheaper.

I'm pretty sick of it, and will never advertise with The Knot because of it.



First the video does not encourage brides to go to you. They are offering brides advice who are looking for ways to save on their wedding. They do not say every baker will offer you this alternative, they simply state this could be a way you can save on your wedding. You read into the video that they state every baker will provide this option. Some do, some don't. And not everyone that does is specializing in "discount cakes" as you put it. This advice is offered by high priced bakers in the industry so it is not just coming from the Knot.

Second you miss a pretty important statement in the video. It states order a small elabortately decorated cake and then order sheet cakes. Your sheet cakes may not be "cheap" but I do not doubt for a second that ordering a smaller more elaborately decorated cake and sheet cakes (if you offered them) would be cheaper than ordering a full elaborately wedding cake.

How do I know this? Because you state your sheet cakes state a $210 with no decoration in a previous post. The advice of the Knot is based on decoration not the cost of cake. That is stated at the beginning of the video where they state the more elaborate the decoration the more expensive per serving. Your pricing scheme for sheet cakes is consistent with that statement (as you note in your discussion of your prices for half sheet cakes).

So where is the problem? Given your discussion of your pricing scheme I fail to see how it is not consistent with the advice offered by the Knot. But it does not matter as you do not offer them anyway. So a bride looking to save on their wedding cake would not be your client, but since they are looking to save they could not afford your cakes anyway--so again where is the problem?
post #33 of 73
Wow- I haven't posted in a VERY long time- but felt compelled to defend the honor of the humble sheet cake. Sheet cakes are mostly what I create and what people in my area are comfortable with. Many times a wedding isn't professionally catered and for let's say, the aunt of the bride, who's been charged with cutting the cake- a tiered wedding cake can be a scary proposition! I charge only slightly less for sheet cakes (compared to the tiered) so it's not a huge money saver- and yet many brides still choose this option for the sake of practicality when it comes time to serve the cake itself. People in my area are excited to get a sheet cake from me and look forward to having a cake that is not only original and nice to look at but easy to cut and serve.
I'm neither surprised or alarmed by the Knot posting an article with semi-faulty advice- but really, I think it's safe to assume that many brides and other 'cake muggles' have already made these same assumptions on how to save on a wedding cake anyways so there's nothing to it but educating our customers on what their options are and being upfront with them on their budget and your own pricing. If some of you out there don't do sheet cakes than it simply means that you tell the customer that you do not provide sheet cake, period. There's no need to bash the poor cake just because it's a rectangle with short sides, for Pete's sake!
At the end of the day, it all boils down to different strokes for different folks. But also remember that if you are going to be very vocal about your disdain for sheet cakes in a condesending manner that other's will see that as having an inflexible, unfriendly and elitist attitude- which is never good for business.
"I wanted to buy a candle holder, but the store didn't have one. So I got a cake." Mitch Hedberg
Reply
"I wanted to buy a candle holder, but the store didn't have one. So I got a cake." Mitch Hedberg
Reply
post #34 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

Oh, goodie! My turn.................


Image

Image



You started it! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif
post #35 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorcake

First the video does not encourage brides to go to you. They are offering brides advice who are looking for ways to save on their wedding. They do not say every baker will offer you this alternative, they simply state this could be a way you can save on your wedding.

You read into the video that they state every baker will provide this option. Some do, some don't. And not everyone that does is specializing in "discount cakes" as you put it. This advice is offered by high priced bakers in the industry so it is not just coming from the Knot.



They never said that all bakers don't offer this option or to go to a specific place or type of baker to make this cheaper discounted cost less budget saving option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorcake

Second you miss a pretty important statement in the video. It states order a small elabortately decorated cake and then order sheet cakes. Your sheet cakes may not be "cheap" but I do not doubt for a second that ordering a smaller more elaborately decorated cake and sheet cakes (if you offered them) would be cheaper than ordering a full elaborately wedding cake.

How do I know this? Because you state your sheet cakes state a $210 with no decoration in a previous post. The advice of the Knot is based on decoration not the cost of cake. That is stated at the beginning of the video where they state the more elaborate the decoration the more expensive per serving. Your pricing scheme for sheet cakes is consistent with that statement (as you note in your discussion of your prices for half sheet cakes).



My party cakes for birthdays start at that price point, NOT a wedding kitchen cake. My wedding kitchen cakes are $6 per serving. I only offer this for wedding for 250 guests and over. So no, I am NOT consistent with that statement - I don't do sheet cake weddings. I though I was pretty clear about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorcake

So where is the problem? Given your discussion of your pricing scheme I fail to see how it is not consistent with the advice offered by the Knot. But it does not matter as you do not offer them anyway. So a bride looking to save on their wedding cake would not be your client, but since they are looking to save they could not afford your cakes anyway--so again where is the problem?



The problem is that The Knot is perpetuating the idea that wedding cakes are a waist of money and that everyone doesn't need to pay to get one, all while showing cakes that retailed for over $1000 created by high end cake studios regularly featured by The Knot. Did you see a SINGLE picture of a "small cake and sheet cakes?" No. I saw multi tiered Ben Ron Isreal, Cakegirls, Elisa Strauss, Pink Cake Box cakes. In fact, they kept talking about "fon-DAUNT" and kept going back to that PCB cake. If I was a bride I'd be imagining a 3 tiered fake cake with sheet cakes that look just like THAT! picture! and of all the money I'll be saving. It's false and misleading, setting unrealistic expectations of what a bride looking for discount or cheep cake can come to expect when asking for sheet cakes to save money.

I have more consultations then I care to admit where no matter how much prescreening I do to make sure the bride is in the market for the types of cakes I make and are comfortable with my pricing, they still show up, waist my time, eat all my free cake, and think they can get a 3 tiered cake and a sheet cake for their 75 person wedding and it'll be "so much cheaper!". I have point blank asked people before even making the appointment how much a basic cake of mine will cost them and they say "OK". They show up, eat free cake and waist my time because they assumed I'll make sheet cakes and they can get my cake cheaper. They literally are confused when I tell them I don't do that, they are asking for too much cake, and they won't save any money. I get complete confusion.

So yes, they ARE telling brides to come to me, and other cake studios just like me to get this discount option. That's my problem.
post #36 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF

The problem is that The Knot is perpetuating the idea that wedding cakes are a waist of money and that everyone doesn't need to pay to get one, all while showing cakes that retailed for over $1000 created by high end cake studios regularly featured by The Knot. Did you see a SINGLE picture of a "small cake and sheet cakes?" No. I saw multi tiered Ben Ron Isreal, Cakegirls, Elisa Strauss, Pink Cake Box cakes. In fact, they kept talking about "fon-DAUNT" and kept going back to that PCB cake. If I was a bride I'd be imagining a 3 tiered fake cake with sheet cakes that look just like THAT! picture! and of all the money I'll be saving. It's false and misleading, setting unrealistic expectations of what a bride looking for discount or cheep cake can come to expect when asking for sheet cakes to save money.

.



This is a very good point. If they're talking about the smaller cakes with a sheet cake, they could show that instead of dangling the fantasy in front of the brides. But that wouldn't be photo-shoot fantasy perfect, so they won't do it.

The only thing that made sense in that video was at the end where she said to talk to your baker and figure out what they can do to cut costs for you.
post #37 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

I've only seen single tiered wedding cakes as part of a multiple-cake dessert display. I think that the problem were experiencing here is that the majority of businesses who do wedding cakes arent doing single tiers plus a sheet cake, that an extremely unusual business model for weddings. So when Jason is giving advice on this topic it's normal for his former business,but out of the norm for 99% of the wedding cake businesses in the US. I wouldn't call your single tier plus sheet a discount option necessarily, but for people who specialize in custom wedding cakes that's so totally not what we do it's pretty much an irrelevant point,know what I mean?


Putting aside the single tier issue (I understand that is rather unusual), I wouldn't say it's unusual for custom order bakeries to offer lower prices for smaller tier cakes + sheet cakes as opposed to a larger tier cake. The cost differential for premium bakeries is probably not as much as my midmarket bakery but in many cases it will be there. This is even more applicable to relatively high-volume retail bakeries who regularly make both multi-tier and sheet cakes, after all a kitchen cake requires less decoration time than a tiered cake that will be displayed.
post #38 of 73
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

Oh, goodie! My turn.................


Image

Image



You started it! icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif



I know..........and I swear I didn't mean to "start" anything.

I should have known.

Mea culpa.

But, on the bright side, the drink & the popcorn were GREAT!!!!

Rae
I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
Reply
I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
Reply
post #39 of 73
I don't offer sheet cakes ever, but I have a cool story. Bride contacted me awhile ago for cake for 200, asked my opinion about getting sheet cakes and a small cutting cake just for them to cut, yada yada yada....she really didn't know anything about it, so I politely gave her my opinion, and linked her to one of IndyDebi's articles. Told her it was completely her decision, but she might want to take a look at it from her guest's perspective.

Just like, that she doubled her cake budget and she got a huge 6 tier cake so that all of her guests had the same giant filled slices from the "real" cake. Dream come true, score one for the decorators!
post #40 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF



They never said that all bakers don't offer this option or to go to a specific place or type of baker to make this cheaper discounted cost less budget saving option.



While you are correct I think I am fairly safe in assuming even if they did you would still not find the message appealing given that your objection is more significant. That said, it is general advice that is consistent with advice offered by people within the industry. The rule of thumb is you should never pay sticker for a car, yet despite that advice being everywhere I do not walk into every dealership thinking they will negotiate---not all do. That people interpret the message this way is their issue and not the message. You are right they make no claim either way and because of that it is simply silly for a bride to assume they are making the claim all bakers will provide sheet cakes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF


The problem is that The Knot is perpetuating the idea that wedding cakes are a waist of money and that everyone doesn't need to pay to get one, all while showing cakes that retailed for over $1000 created by high end cake studios regularly featured by The Knot. Did you see a SINGLE picture of a "small cake and sheet cakes?" .



Two separate issues here. The first -- perpetuating that wedding cakes are a waste of money. Does David's Bridal perpetuate the idea that wedding dresses are a waste of money? No--sorry not everyone can afford a hand made wedding dress from a high end wedding designer, they must buy off the rack. It is a place where brides who cannot afford to shop at boutiques like Keinfeld's can find a nice wedding dress (my sister found a beautiful dress there when she was straight out of college and could not afford a $6000 dress).

Say Yes to the Dress does a really nice job of making you feel like you need to find the perfect dress and that will cost you a few thousand dollars--not everyone can afford it. So you have places where you buy off the rack, it does not mean that because one HAS to buy off the rack they believe that wedding dresses are a waste of money. I am sorry but one does not have less of a wedding or does not perpetuate the idea that wedding dresses are a waste of money because they choose to be responsible and not place themselves thousands of dollars in debt just to satisfy some belief that if you buy off the rack you believe the dress is a waste of money.

Just as with dresses so goes the cake. That video does not target people who believe wedding cakes are a waste of money, it targets cost conscious brides who would like the cake of their dreams and cannot afford it. There is a big difference in saying you are on a budget here is how you can get a great cake, and stating wedding cakes are not worth the price tag and here is how you can do it on the cheap. The video is clearly targeting brides on a budget not those that think cake is a waste of money. The simple fact is many elements of wedding have elements where costs can be cut, the cake is no different. You may not like the message, but they are also not perpetuating the idea that cake is waste of money simply because you decide you can have a smaller version of the cake of your dreams while also opting for sheet cakes.

As to the showing of fully decorated cakes. And? So lets break down the video. They open with some elaborately detailed cakes along side the pricing discussion At the 15-20 second mark they show some tiered cakes and state as a general rule the more elaborate the cake the more expensive it will be--what do you want them to show? The advice is consistent with the statement--those are elaborate cakes--they will be more expensive. What is deceptive or misleading here?

The next cake they show is the brown three tiered cake with sugar flowers. While they show this image they state if you want a lower price stay away from tiers and sugar flowers. Frankly when being told to stay away from something I want to see what I am being told to say away from. There is nothing false or misleading in the visuals. They complement the message by showing brides what to avoid. Any bride looking at that believing they are saying you could afford this is not listening to the message--and that is their problem not the Knot's

The fondant discussion--they state clearly is it more expensive than buttercream. Is there anything misleading in that statement? They show fondant cakes and then state if you get fondant you will pay for labor. Again nothing misleading, if you want what is pictured you will pay. Again a fairly clear message.

The next tiered cake is an example of flowers on a cake and the image looks like a cake with real flowers on it. Now depending on the florist and flowers this may be more expensive, so they may over extend the claim. However the cake is consistent with the message. They do not say do all these things, they are providing different ideas into how one might be able to save on a cake.

The next is a small cake -- where you are right they do not show a small cake. They show a three tiered cake. Maybe not the best choice, then again what constitutes a small cake depends on the size of the wedding. My wedding we had around 90 guests the three tier cake (6,9 12) spot on, my cousin's which was 250+ that would have been small and they would have needed sheet cakes. What is small varies.

That aside they do not say you can get THIS cake, they say get a small version of your cake. And if you check the camera work on the second cake they show the camera zooms out only to show the top two tiers. They do not show the entire cake giving you an idea of what a small cake would look like. If people do not pay attention to the video again that is their problem, not the problem of the producers of the message.

Finally getting a small cake is one strategy they list. The video is not get small cakes and sheet cakes. Thus that they showed full cakes with other pieces of advice is irrelevant. They are examples of the other ways a price of a cake can be lowered.

As to the last advice they state use false layers. Now I will agree there is a question as to how much cheaper false layers will be. However of course they show full cakes, because their point is you can get this LOOK and no one will know the difference. Here they are not telling viewers not what to avoid but what get. So again of course they are going to show fully decorated cakes, nothing misleading in the image, even if the savings may not be much, if any.

As to your business experiences those individuals are influenced by things other than the message by the Knot. If they see that video they are going to interpret it as being consistent with what they already believe. It does not however persuade brides that wedding cakes are a waste of money nor does it tell people who pay attention to the message you can get these cakes for less. Most of the images are images of what stay o away from or what you might be able to get using dummy rounds. So your problem is much larger than a 90 second video telling brides who are on budget how they might get the cake of their dreams.
post #41 of 73
I just want to say I'm glad that you posted icon_wink.gif
Also want to add that your sheet cakes are amazing and are far better than about 98% of the tiered cakes I have seen on this site. You have reinvented te sheet cake via your flawless and amazing execution!! Please keep posting your pictures...you are one of the reasons I come back to this site, I want to check out new cakes youve posted!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrie76

Wow- I haven't posted in a VERY long time- but felt compelled to defend the honor of the humble sheet cake. Sheet cakes are mostly what I create and what people in my area are comfortable with. Many times a wedding isn't professionally catered and for let's say, the aunt of the bride, who's been charged with cutting the cake- a tiered wedding cake can be a scary proposition! I charge only slightly less for sheet cakes (compared to the tiered) so it's not a huge money saver- and yet many brides still choose this option for the sake of practicality when it comes time to serve the cake itself. People in my area are excited to get a sheet cake from me and look forward to having a cake that is not only original and nice to look at but easy to cut and serve.
I'm neither surprised or alarmed by the Knot posting an article with semi-faulty advice- but really, I think it's safe to assume that many brides and other 'cake muggles' have already made these same assumptions on how to save on a wedding cake anyways so there's nothing to it but educating our customers on what their options are and being upfront with them on their budget and your own pricing. If some of you out there don't do sheet cakes than it simply means that you tell the customer that you do not provide sheet cake, period. There's no need to bash the poor cake just because it's a rectangle with short sides, for Pete's sake!
At the end of the day, it all boils down to different strokes for different folks. But also remember that if you are going to be very vocal about your disdain for sheet cakes in a condesending manner that other's will see that as having an inflexible, unfriendly and elitist attitude- which is never good for business.

usaribbon.gif

No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government...

Reply

No his mind is not for rent, to any god or government...

Reply
post #42 of 73
Corrie's sheet cakes are awesome! But let's face it, most sheet cakes are no where near the quality of what Corrie makes, and most people when they think of sheet cakes, don't have a masterpiece like Corrie's in mind. And The Knot isn't referring to beautifully done flawless ones like that either. Apples and oranges? I'd proudly display your sheet cake at my party any day!
post #43 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromScratchSF

They never said that all bakers don't offer this option or to go to a specific place or type of baker to make this cheaper discounted cost less budget saving option.



Nor do they say all bakers DO.

All due respect, FromScratchSF, you need to chill out. In my opinion, you've come across as petty, condescending, and downright rude in this thread. And not just about this topic...but toward other commenters. Hopefully that wasn't your intention. If I were a bride looking for a baker and read these comments, I would avoid you like the plague. Not because of your pricing policies (which I can well afford, before you insinuate I couldn't), but because of your attitude. Just saying.

P.S. I believe you mean "waste," not "waist." Three times you meant it. You're welcome.
post #44 of 73
Have to agree, Corrie76 your cakes are out of this world!

The Knot article doesn't really irk me, but then again over here in the UK we don't really do 'sheet cakes'. And I've never heard of one getting served at a wedding either.
"Taste your words before you feed them to people."
www.sugaredsaffron.co.uk
www.facebook.com/SugaredSaffron
Reply
"Taste your words before you feed them to people."
www.sugaredsaffron.co.uk
www.facebook.com/SugaredSaffron
Reply
post #45 of 73
The fact that The Knot actually had to write about how to "save" on a cake implies that brides know that cakes are expensive. My younger sister makes custom invitations that are AMAZING, especially the ones that are embossed. She wins awards all the time, but she will not work with brides. She actually had a bride who was marrying a gazillionaire (he's a VERY famous author) try to get her to design something for next to nothing. Nice try bridey! My sister has convinced me to save my sanity and not do weddings. I just cannot believe how little people understand about talent and what it takes!
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Cake Decorating Business
Cake Central › Cake Forums › Cake Talk › Cake Decorating Business › The Knot Is At It AGAIN !!!