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Was this a process foul? - Page 3

post #31 of 57
4/30/12 at 6:32pm
I certainly see where you're coming from, from the perspective of business ethics and contract law. Since I identified with the customer I suppose my choice was driven more from my personal morality, which saw the restrictions of the other baker as the greater breach of ethics.
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post #32 of 57
4/30/12 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by QTCakes1

You are constantly preaching about copyright laws. When someone on here says,"What's the big deal. It's not like the licensed company is going to find out", you are one of the first to preach "Just cause the company won't find out it is still wrong. That is still unethical of you to do".


I do my best to stick to spreading information about facts, laws and the pragmatic risks of breaking laws. For example, when people say it's not a big deal to violate copyright (e.g. they are making a cake that will never leave their house and no one will be taking pictures), I say it is still against the law but realistically there is very little chance of getting caught. People can then make up their own mind as to if they still want to do it.

If anything, I try to stay neutral on the topic of ethics, simply because it is so subjective. I don't recall ever telling someone else what they did was unethical.

But your characterization of me does work well as a straw man, I'll give you that.
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post #33 of 57
4/30/12 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

And as someone with food allergies myself, I was thoroughly disgusted with the other baker who refused to accommodate a food-allergic guest of their customer AND refused to allow them to accommodate the guest on their own.

That bride asked us to make the main cake too but we already had too many orders for that weekend. Everything worked out for the best...the guests actually preferred our gluten-free/nut-free cake to the "real" wedding cake, and the bride was very appreciative.

Call me what you will (I'm not seeing the connection between this and health inspections or copyright), but I stand by my decision and I would do it again in a heartbeat.



I, myself, am sick to death of "rationalizers".

The bride was wrong to sign a contract with a baker who couldn't accommodate ALL of her requirements. The bride was wrong to even ASK you to collude with her to violate her signed contract. No one at her wedding would have DIED without having a piece of cake. Of course she was "appreciative"...........she was chuffed because she "got over" on the other baker
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YOU were wrong to go along with the plot. You were wrong to have aided and abetted her.

You know full well that not every baker can accommodate gluten-free/nut free requests for a multitude of reasons, including not just liability but also for a genuine concern about the well-being of the allergic individual.

Every baker has a right to their own legal policies--no one forced the bride to sign that baker's contract. And no matter how indignant you were about those policies that hit too close to home, you should have said thanks, but no thanks.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Period.
Rae
I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
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I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
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post #34 of 57
4/30/12 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

You know full well that not every baker can accommodate gluten-free/nut free requests for a multitude of reasons, including not just liability but also for a genuine concern about the well-being of the allergic individual.


I absolutely agree that not every baker can accommodate food allergy requests (in fact it's at the core of our business plan). What I do not agree with is not allowing the customer to bring another cake that can meet those requests. I seriously doubt it would ever get that far, but such a clause could potentially violate the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Usually when a sole source clause is discussed here, most people explain that they have an exception for food allergies, so thankfully this is usually not an issue.

Quote:
Quote:

Every baker has a right to their own legal policies--no one forced the bride to sign that baker's contract.


Again I agree, ideally the bride would not have signed the contract in the first place or would have backed out and found a different baker. The bride explained to me that she did not know about the food allergy requirement when she signed the contract, and she could not find another reputable baker that had availability.

I had a feeling this would spark an interesting discussion, it certainly didn't disappoint. icon_biggrin.gif
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post #35 of 57
4/30/12 at 7:11pm
Glad you've finally admitted in writing that your goal is to stir up trouble and sit back and watch. I've always suspected as much.

Well, knowing now how you're thriving on reading your own manure..............I'm out.

Enjoy your malodorous meal.
I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
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I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
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post #36 of 57
4/30/12 at 7:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

Glad you've finally admitted in writing that your goal is to stir up trouble and sit back and watch.


I believe you misinterpreted my post...I just thought my situation was interesting and on-topic so I posted it. My goal is not to "stir up trouble", it's to have an interesting conversation, and as you can see I'm certainly not "sitting back and watching". icon_smile.gif
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My experimental blog: The Bakery Business Perspective
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My experimental blog: The Bakery Business Perspective
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post #37 of 57
4/30/12 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

I certainly see where you're coming from, from the perspective of business ethics and contract law. Since I identified with the customer I suppose my choice was driven more from my personal morality, which saw the restrictions of the other baker as the greater breach of ethics.



The restrictions of the other baker was the greater breach of ethics? That is hilarious! If she couldn't accommodate, she couldn't accommodate. That is no breach of ethics.
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post #38 of 57
4/30/12 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osgirl

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

I certainly see where you're coming from, from the perspective of business ethics and contract law. Since I identified with the customer I suppose my choice was driven more from my personal morality, which saw the restrictions of the other baker as the greater breach of ethics.



The restrictions of the other baker was the greater breach of ethics? That is hilarious! If she couldn't accommodate, she couldn't accommodate. That is no breach of ethics.


To clarify, I was referring to the sole source clause preventing the customer from accommodating the food-allergic guest themselves, not that the baker could not create a safe cake for the customer (which is perfectly understandable).

It's one thing to tell a customer you don't feel comfortable baking a cake that meets their allergy requirements. It's quite another to tell the customer that no one else is allowed to serve a cake that meets their allergy requirements at their event.
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post #39 of 57
4/30/12 at 8:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

Glad you've finally admitted in writing that your goal is to stir up trouble and sit back and watch.


I believe you misinterpreted my post...I just thought my situation was interesting and on-topic so I posted it. My goal is not to "stir up trouble", it's to have an interesting conversation, and as you can see I'm certainly not "sitting back and watching". icon_smile.gif

I love seeing the cake photos of other members. Sharing is what it is all about. Please share some photos so that we may enjoy your work as well as your words icon_smile.gif
Being perky and kind is the is the only way to go! Now let's decorate and make someone happy.
I operate legally out of The Cake Studio. It would have been easier to be based at home but my little boys were eating the the fondant flowers and accents!
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Being perky and kind is the is the only way to go! Now let's decorate and make someone happy.
I operate legally out of The Cake Studio. It would have been easier to be based at home but my little boys were eating the the fondant flowers and accents!
Reply
post #40 of 57
4/30/12 at 8:48pm
Here, let me jump in:

http://www.allergyfriendlypastries.com/aboutus.html

http://www.flickr.com/people/jasonkraft/

Rae
I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
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I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
Reply
post #41 of 57
4/30/12 at 8:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarpixy

I love seeing the cake photos of other members. Sharing is what it is all about. Please share some photos so that we may enjoy your work as well as your words icon_smile.gif


I have zero baking or decorating talent, I stick to the business side so I'm afraid I can only contribute words.

From the looks of this thread a few people might think I contribute too much. icon_wink.gif
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post #42 of 57
4/30/12 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

Here, let me jump in:

http://www.allergyfriendlypastries.com/aboutus.html

http://www.flickr.com/people/jasonkraft/


Yep, that was our business (until we sold it) and that is the link to my personal flickr account. The cakes on those sites were baked and decorated by my very talented wife, Amanda.

I don't really think this is the appropriate place to share pictures though, there is a separate section of the site for that.
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My experimental blog: The Bakery Business Perspective
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My experimental blog: The Bakery Business Perspective
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post #43 of 57
4/30/12 at 8:59pm
I'm sure she meant that perhaps you should post some in your profile, as most of us do or have done, so that readers can click on the "photos" button at the bottom of your posts.

Of course, you're only supposed to post photos of YOUR own work. That is the rule.............

Rae
I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
Reply
I love you, but your emergency is not my crisis!

They say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance.--Terry Pratchett (b.194
Reply
post #44 of 57
4/30/12 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakesCakes

Here, let me jump in:

http://www.allergyfriendlypastries.com/aboutus.html

http://www.flickr.com/people/jasonkraft/


Yep, that was our business (until we sold it) and that is the link to my personal flickr account. The cakes on those sites were baked and decorated by my very talented wife, Amanda.

I don't really think this is the appropriate place to share pictures though, there is a separate section of the site for that.

Pictures are shared in members profiles. The reference was to pictures contained in the profile, and obviously not a request to share pictures in a thread icon_wink.gif
Being perky and kind is the is the only way to go! Now let's decorate and make someone happy.
I operate legally out of The Cake Studio. It would have been easier to be based at home but my little boys were eating the the fondant flowers and accents!
Reply
Being perky and kind is the is the only way to go! Now let's decorate and make someone happy.
I operate legally out of The Cake Studio. It would have been easier to be based at home but my little boys were eating the the fondant flowers and accents!
Reply
post #45 of 57
4/30/12 at 9:10pm
If I had the slightest inkling it was gonna be this good on CC tonight I would have made popcorn.

OP you were not wrong gifting the cake to your cousin. IF there had been any sole provider agreement or contract between the baker and the bride, the bride violated the bakers wishes, not you. IF there was such an agreement and you were aware of it then sidestepped it, that would be unethical. But you didn't know so don't beat yourself up over it.

Jason, I am truly surprised that you see no wrongness in knowingly providing goods when there is a standing sole provider contract in play. That's like saying contracts are just sheets of paper with no real meaning. It's a little underhanded.
If you can't find time it do it right..how will you find time to do it over?
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If you can't find time it do it right..how will you find time to do it over?
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