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Cottage Food Law questions and concerns. - Page 5

post #61 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by PieceofCakeAZ

Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar


And just to point something out, there is NOT enough cake to go around for everyone. That' s nice thought but it drives me nuts when people say that.



Wait a second, you mean when the supply of something increases exponentially, that the demand doesn't automatically increase by the same amount, based solely on the fact that there has been an increase in the supply? icon_wink.gificon_biggrin.gif


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post #62 of 116
Since I am the one who made the comment, I would just like to explain what I meant.

Many of my friends would love for me to make a cake for them. When I don't, they do not go out to another baker to make the kind of cake I would make for them. Most either go to Sam's Club or just make their own.

I do think there should be limits on the amount a person can sell under the CFL. Not sure if this is the case or not. This would ensure that those operating under the CFL are small bakers and not someone operating a bakery out of their home as I don't think that is fair.
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post #63 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristineCMC

Since I am the one who made the comment, I would just like to explain what I meant.

Many of my friends would love for me to make a cake for them. When I don't, they do not go out to another baker to make the kind of cake I would make for them. Most either go to Sam's Club or just make their own.

I do think there should be limits on the amount a person can sell under the CFL. Not sure if this is the case or not. This would ensure that those operating under the CFL are small bakers and not someone operating a bakery out of their home as I don't think that is fair.



Not trying to pick on you...It's not the first time I've heard that, though, which is why I wrote about the concept. I've heard people say the same thing at least three or four times recently, not just from bakers. Sam's Club is a good example, actually, since whenever one of those tries to open up businesses in town have a fit for months ahead of time. They know that the megastores will basically be undercutting them and siphoning business away from them. A lot of small businesses have closed because a big box store opened nearby. I could go on but I'm tiiiiired. icon_rolleyes.gif
post #64 of 116
Interesting topic. The only thing I don't like about CFL's is under cutting prices and yes, it does happen. But I always wonder how much it effects me, cause a lot of time, and I am not saying everyone, some of those CFL cakes are some of the fuggliest cakes and the person would have been better off going to Wal-Mart, ie. "Cakewrecks", hello. So do those person's still get customers and how do the manage to stay in business at those $1.25 a serving price range. Or is it that they don't last, but then there is another new "Duff" on the scene who just finished their first Wilton's course and are in full business mode. Like I said, I know it does take a toll, I just wonder in what exact way.
post #65 of 116
Thread Starter 
Costumeczar.....Thank you so much for understanding how I felt when I posted my question. My main source of income is wedding cakes and not every year is a big as others. I more than understand what you are saying. Several of the venues in my area require permits, licenses and liability insurance. The weddings that are booked at those venues are usually larger and more profitable. I have become a preferred cake vendor of several of these venues. No, just because there are more cake bakers that isn't going to spur more people to hop up and decide to get married. I don't think having a larger number of bakers to choose from is what they've been waiting to gt engaged.

This is something that I saw happen to another industry. I have several professional photographer friends that were established long before digital photography was ever heard of. After the price of digital cameras dropped and people pick up one everywhere, you couldn't sling a dead cat without hitting a "photographer." This really hit professional studio owning photographers hard, one guy had to lay off his own son. Another photographer got a call from a guy that went like this "I picked up a camera at Best Buy yesterday and I'm shooting a wedding next week, can you give me some pointers?"

I just had to wonder.
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post #66 of 116
[quote="cakelady2266"] After the price of digital cameras dropped and people pick up one everywhere, you couldn't sling a dead cat without hitting a "photographer." [quote]


Ahahahahahaha!!!!! Okay, I am sorry, but I have just never heard of that phrase of slinging a dead cat. thumbs_up.gif

And I know of photographers that it hit them the same way. But then people got crap wedding photos as well.
post #67 of 116
HAhaha! Photographers always have that complaint, it's true. Also the weekend DJs who have an iPod and some speakers. The category that gets hit really hard is the wedding planners, because everybody and their brother thinks that just getting married makes you qualified to arrange someone else's wedding. I can probably name about twenty "planners" who have come and gone in this area in the last two years. They hire someone to make a fancy website and a logo, then book maybe one or two weddings at bargain basement prices, screw them up, get yelled at by angry clients, decide that they don't like working on weekends, and quit. In the meantime, the established planners who will not screw up your wedding get shortchanged because of brides who hire the new ones. The new ones generally charge WAY less than the established businesses, so it takes money out of their pockets and the brides are the ones who save money while getting crappy service.

Now replace the word "planner" with " baker" and you get what I'm dealing with icon_wink.gif
post #68 of 116
Thread Starter 
I knew I couldn't be the only one with concerns. But for a few post there I was afraid I was gonna be lynched.

I didn't know much about the CFL and since Alabama hadn't passed one yet I really wasn't too bothered. So when it came up I wanted to know how it would effect me.

I'm not a storefront so there is nothing going out the door every minute of the day for me. Birthday cakes aren't money makers for me, since folks want Buddy the Cake Boss cakes at Wal-Mart prices. I focus mainly on wedding cakes. But to my advantage, I have the credentials to get in preferred venues that home bakers didn't. So with CFL all that would change. In addition to that CFL bakers would be able to advertise, bringing those who had baked "in the shadows" for the years into the mainstream. These are real financial concerns to me.

To address the repeated statements of restrictions. If no one is enforcing them, then there really are none. Yes everything is labeled, okay got that. Financial caps, who is in charge of that? Do folks stop baking when they reach that magic number? What about orders on the books passed that point, do they get baked? I'm just curious.

Now I apologize in advance for anyone one this offends but I'm throwing out here. READ CAREFULLY....This is not a generalization of home bakers, I'm speaking of folks I know personally. I know for an actual fact that there are some home bakers that have always made cream cheese and meringue icings, used fillings that need refrigeration, made tons of cheesecakes. So if that is something that they did with success as illegal home bakers, who is gonna know if they continue making and selling these products? If they don't advertise it but they offer it in a consultation with a customer, who's gonna know? Some people have operated illegally for years and they didn't have a problem operating illegally. So the states stamping legal on it may not change some folks way of doing. That is also concerning.

Once upon a time I was a hobby baker with a dream, so not only do I understand you... I've been you. I don't begrudge you anything. I don't think many of you understand me. Many have considered me whining, complaining, jealous, petty, short sided or just plain scared. I'm not, I don't feel threatened by you. I'm just not so sure that this is an entirely a level playing field that's all.
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post #69 of 116
I live in a CFL state, and my concerns are the same as the ones mentioned in this thread, mainly undercharging. I know not all home bakers undercharge, and that's great if you don't. But a lot of them do, and I'm getting tired of quoting a cake to someone and having them respond that "so and so's cake company" quoted them a lot cheaper and why is it so much??? Well, it's "so much" because we have at least 4 times the amount of overhead than the average home baker.

If your going to operate under CFL, great! Just charge appropriately to at least be in the ballpark with what storefront bakeries and commercial kitchen bakers in your area charge. The worst that can happen is that you get to keep a lot of more of the money than those of us with rent, insurance, electric, gas, water, vent hood maintenance, grease trap cleaning, etc.
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post #70 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

Once upon a time I was a hobby baker with a dream, so not only do I understand you... I've been you. I don't begrudge you anything. I don't think many of you understand me. Many have considered me whining, complaining, jealous, petty, short sided or just plain scared. I'm not, I don't feel threatened by you. I'm just not so sure that this is an entirely a level playing field that's all.



I promise not to stone youicon_smile.gif It is good to read your thoughts. I also get that you have invested a lot of time and money into you business. I get that, I really, really do.

I also think that those bakers your referred to in your post, will continue to do what they did before. Their own thing without concern. The difference is that maybe with a CFL on the books, they will have a bigger chance of getting into trouble because people are actually "regulating" them.

Now, I will say I don't think that it would be fair for someone to operate a full out bakery under the CFL. I also don't think that is what most of us are looking for. Maybe some are, but I don't know how they could do that in a home they actually live in. I also think that many do want to eventually go the route of opening an actual storefront business, but want to test the waters first. Also most do not have the start up costs which are very high taking it out of most peoples reach..

I also have a dream.....My dream is not to open a bakery nor make wedding cakes (who wants to deal with the brides or their mothers?). My dream is to make a little extra money selling cakes to friends or friends of friends. To be able to say, no I can't make a cake that weekend because we are going to the beach. But on the flip side, say yes, I would love to make that cake for you. My dream is to be able to follow the rules of my state (if they ever get out of committee) and do something that I love that will benefit my familyicon_smile.gif
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post #71 of 116
Thread Starter 
ChristineCMC....I have invested 23 years in cakes, 14 of which have been in my own legal shop. Yes I had my first years as I hobby baker then several years in a borrowed kitchen.

What most bakers who do good work will find out once they start selling cakes they will have a following. It's sort of an avalanche effect. The friends of friends, the relatives and coworkers of friends, the relatives and friends of the coworkers of friends friends and so on. That will be the birth of a business. And soon there is not enough of you to go around and life is good and the money don't hurt either. Until one day you wake up and instead of being the only baker on your street you are one of six bakers on your street. I know after the cake shows on t.v. became popular EVERYBODY was a cake decorator. Like somebody said, just because supply of bakers has increased, supply of customers may not.

One thing I know for certain is brides and their mothers are less of a PITA than the "birthday mother" who wants a 4 tier cake to serve 20 for $25. For all the hassle and time of a bunch of fondant critters, do dads and what nots on a $75 birthday cake, I can make a couple 200 serving wedding cakes for well over a grand. That is a lot of beach time.

See, I'm giving everybody free business advice.
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post #72 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

One thing I know for certain is brides and their mothers are less of a PITA than the "birthday mother" who wants a 4 tier cake to serve 20 for $25. For all the hassle and time of a bunch of fondant critters, do dads and what nots on a $75 birthday cake, I can make a couple 200 serving wedding cakes for well over a grand.


Our business handled mostly birthday cakes, and "birthday mothers" were not a hassle at all. If they want more elaborate decorations, they pay for them, just like a bride would pay for them on a wedding cake. If they don't want to pay for the elaborate decorations, they get a simpler cake.

Birthday cakes do tend to be smaller, but the demand for birthday cakes is far greater than for wedding cakes, and a high volume of simpler cakes can help quite a bit in paying down fixed overhead costs.
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post #73 of 116
Thread Starter 
Jason....I wish there was some way to show you the cake pictures and ideas I get emails on every day of the week. Here is one example of what I'm talking about. I got an email from a lady wanting a 3D gumball cake. I priced the cake at $250. The lady didn't want to pay that for the cake and I suggested she find a simpler design or another decorator. Oh no she wants that cake and me to do it. So I again tell her that will be $250. She again tells me she doesn't want to pay that much, she has spent so much on the party already. This goes on for many emails. Then finally she realized she wasn't going to be able to talk me into doing that cake for any less she wanted to know what I will do for $50. She got a sheet cake with a fondant cutout of gumball machine.

Jason that is just a drop in the bucket of stories I could tell you about birthday cakes. They don't want simple cakes at reasonable prices they want elaborate cakes at Wal-Mart prices and don't understand why they can't have it. So since they can't get a 4 tier cake to serve 20 people with fondant critters, do dads and what not's for $25 they go elsewhere. Where I live isn't a large metropolitan area. Nobody around here and nearby is willing to pay hundreds of dollars on a birthday cake, because folks have birthday's every year. BUT brides understand before they walk in the door, that a wedding cake will be expensive.

The vast majority of the population have no idea what goes into making a cake and how much that they cost. I price cakes accordingly. People see elaborate cakes on t.v. made in 30 minutes and think well there can't be that much to it, so it's bound to be cheap.

I've had customers over the years who ordered all their kids birthday cakes from me but come wedding time for one of those kids, they go to Wal-Mart or a home baker who charged half or less than me.

I also have this theory...People shouldn't ask for or expect more cake than they are willing to pay for just because they want it.
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post #74 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakelady2266

Jason....I wish there was some way to show you the cake pictures and ideas I get emails on every day of the week. Here is one example of what I'm talking about. I got an email from a lady wanting a 3D gumball cake. I priced the cake at $250. The lady didn't want to pay that for the cake and I suggested she find a simpler design or another decorator. Oh no she wants that cake and me to do it. So I again tell her that will be $250. She again tells me she doesn't want to pay that much, she has spent so much on the party already. This goes on for many emails. Then finally she realized she wasn't going to be able to talk me into doing that cake for any less she wanted to know what I will do for $50. She got a sheet cake with a fondant cutout of gumball machine.


We have gotten customers like that too...the trick is to clearly give the customer their options: for example, they can have an elaborate cake for $$$, a simpler cake for $$, or they can go to Costco for $. If they try to argue instead of accepting one of the options I thank them for their email, wish them the best of luck on their event, and cut off the conversation. Nine times out of ten the customer will come back and end up placing an order anyway.

Quote:
Quote:

Where I live isn't a large metropolitan area. Nobody around here and nearby is willing to pay hundreds of dollars on a birthday cake, because folks have birthday's every year.


You're right that people generally don't spend hundreds of dollars on a birthday cake, but there is plenty of room to profit by serving the middle of the market with simpler birthday cakes in the $50-150 range, especially if you can offer a unique competitive advantage.

Athens does seem like a relatively small city (25K population) but if you also market to Hunstville you could increase your market size to over 200K. It sounds like you don't need to do this since you are already successful in Athens, just using this as an example to show other ways people can grow their business. With a larger market, the number of customers who really would spend hundreds on birthday cakes every year increases. These customers probably won't come to you if you aren't in their area so you would have to find them and create demand for your premium products.
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post #75 of 116
This is just my two cents .
I don't mean to insult anyone on this thread or the forum . I'm a hobby cake creator myself .

With the passing of CFLs in new states people are tripping over each other to bake and sell cakes.
There will be some who will be successful.
With the economy slightly improving others will go on to get another job and forget about selling cakes.

Some will find its fun but realize they aren't making any money and it takes too much time away from their families.Also that making a deadline isnt much fun . Or the customer doesn't show up and you don't get paid doesn't cut it either.

Then there is the kind we see here everyday that doesn't have a clue and will probably not last long at all . ( Ya know the one who has never baked a cake but has an order for a wedding for 300 cupcakes this weekend )

There will be enough cake disasters that some clients will want a professional. And some new bakers will realize its just not worth the stress.
Once the economy is better and all the cake shows have run their course. The new bakers will dwindle .
Yes there will be a few who make it . But in a couple years things will die down and there will be fewer home based bakers selling cakes.
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