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Shipping Confusion

post #1 of 48
12/13/11 at 11:43am
Thread Starter 
I live and have a Bakery in New York State.

We want to ship but find it very confusing to figure out if we can Legally ship our baked goods, and if so, what are the restrictions.

1. Business in New York State, can we ship to New York State residence?

2. Can we ship to other states?

Do we need some sort of permit from each and every state to ship to, in order to meet health code? I found a lot of confusing material on line.

Specifically, we get asked many times if we can ship cake pops.
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
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The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
post #2 of 48
12/13/11 at 10:30pm
I don't know your state law, but if you ship over even one state line, you must have an FDA licensed commercial kitchen. Not having it is a federal violation with huge penalties. The process starts with an FDA application from your state Dept of Ag. The process is long and expensive. After all is approved, you must use their safe shipping guidelines like all other interstate shippers. These are those $25.00 shipping fees for overnights and dry ice. The application will have all requirements for the process. There are many old posts with this information.
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post #3 of 48
12/15/11 at 9:32am
Thread Starter 
Thank you for the response.

I contacted my Health Department and they knew nothing about why I would not be able to ship across state lines or internally within my state.

I called the AG office and still have not heard back.

I have read countless articles on the web that may or may not have related to me and what I want to do, all with different conclusions.

Yes, you are correct that there are many old posts on here about this. How right you are!! Although I can not guarantee that I found and read them all, I can promise you that I read many prior to posting. I am not a lazy "do nothing for myself" kinda person. I have read and read and read. The posting have LOTS AND LOTS of "here's what I think" with very little fact and often debate the situation without any solid facts or conclusions.

I understand it is annoying when people ask the same thing over and over and over. And for that . . I apologize. It's not always easy to (a) make an educated conclusion after reading a forum debate, and (b) it's not always easy to find every article on a forum simply by using the forum search feature.

Lastly, I do apologize if this came off the wrong way. I do sometimes take it personal when someone kindly recommends I search before posting . . . when I have spent days doing just that.
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
post #4 of 48
12/15/11 at 9:43am
If your state is no help, you could try contacting the FDA directly.

http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/ContactFDA/FindanOfficeorStaffMember/TelephoneNumbersFrequentlyAskedofFDA/default.htm
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The Bakery Business Perspective
An experimental blog with new content every Tuesday!

Recent Articles: The Magic Pricing Formula • Copyright Law
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The Bakery Business Perspective
An experimental blog with new content every Tuesday!

Recent Articles: The Magic Pricing Formula • Copyright Law
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post #5 of 48
12/15/11 at 10:00am
Thread Starter 
I know that you meant well . . and I DO appreciate the number listing you sent . . . however . . .
I just tried calling several of them:

888-463-6332
pressed 4 to talk to someone
pressed 8 to talk to federal state relations
pressed 4 again to talk to federal state relations
got message "I am sorry, you are disconnected"

Called back 888-463-6332
Pressed 4 to talk to someone
Pressed another number to talk about something OR food safety
Got a recording this number has been switched to a new voice system and then it hangs up.

Called another number

Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition (CFSAN) 301-436-1600
Instantly got a recording that this number has been changed to a non published number. Goodbye


I am soooo tired of trying to get answers on this. Now I know why the business down the street told me they just ship and don't ask. They would rather seek forgiveness then to ask permission.

I am understanding why. This is just absurd.

But it's not your fault, and thank you for the information.




Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

If your state is no help, you could try contacting the FDA directly.

http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/ContactFDA/FindanOfficeorStaffMember/TelephoneNumbersFrequentlyAskedofFDA/default.htm
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
post #6 of 48
12/15/11 at 10:45am
. As I understand your frustration you need to remember most people on this site are not business owners and they can only offer the limited amount of help that they have from doing the same as you, searching for other posts like this and getting the phone numbers you seem to have. Keep calling numbers until you get the answers you need or cross your fingers and hope you dont caught and made into the example as to why there are laws for shipping food thats your call.
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post #7 of 48
12/15/11 at 10:52am
You might have better luck with a regional FDA office.

http://www.hhs.gov/about/regions/fdaner.html
.
The Bakery Business Perspective
An experimental blog with new content every Tuesday!

Recent Articles: The Magic Pricing Formula • Copyright Law
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The Bakery Business Perspective
An experimental blog with new content every Tuesday!

Recent Articles: The Magic Pricing Formula • Copyright Law
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post #8 of 48
12/15/11 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
I do appreciate everyone on this forum. My frustrations do not come from the sharing and community here. My frustration comes when I am trying do legally do what is right and the State and Federal gov't makes it so complicated to find out exactly WHAT is legal and right.

I will keep trying (I called the local Farm & Ag again a moment ago . . got a voicemail again).

IF I EVER do find some solid confirmed answers, I will share my infomation

I have so many questions:
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
post #9 of 48
12/15/11 at 10:59am
Thread Starter 
Just tried 5 of those numbers . . none are in service.

I can laugh . . but can you recognize how hard this gets, to try to do the right thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_kraft

You might have better luck with a regional FDA office.

http://www.hhs.gov/about/regions/fdaner.html
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
post #10 of 48
12/15/11 at 11:12am
718-340-7000 option 3 got me to the voice mailbox of the FDA NY field office dept responsible for small business regulations. If you leave a message someone should get back to you.
.
The Bakery Business Perspective
An experimental blog with new content every Tuesday!

Recent Articles: The Magic Pricing Formula • Copyright Law
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The Bakery Business Perspective
An experimental blog with new content every Tuesday!

Recent Articles: The Magic Pricing Formula • Copyright Law
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post #11 of 48
12/15/11 at 12:10pm
I had emailed the consumer@fda.gov email address saying this:


Hello!

I have a home bakery that is licensed and inspected but wanted to know if I can ship inter-state. Do I need an FDA license or commercial kitchen?

I am aware that there are certain requirements for shipping across the states, building the kitchen to certain requirements and having the packaging and recipes licensed.

It would be great if you can let me know if it is legal or not. Thank you!

And here's the response I got:

Dear *****, FDA does not license or permit food firms. Because this is a home business for baked goods you do not need anything from FDA.

Consumer Affairs Specialist #3
Communication and Coordination Branch
Division of Education and Communication
Office of Food Defense, Communication and
Emergency Response
Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition
U.S. Food and Drug Administration

So does that mean we can ship cake pops and stuff inter-state??
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post #12 of 48
12/15/11 at 12:30pm
I'm in CA, no cottage food law, I bake in a commercial kitchen. I recently asked my kitchen manager about shipping, I was told that FDA has nothing to do with regulating the shipping of food. According to them that falls under the USDA, and they only regulate meat and poultry, not baked goods. They told me if I wanted to start shipping cake/cupcakes I have nothing to worry about as long as they were prepared and packaged in their kitchen, even across state lines. There are tenants in our kitchen that ship cookies, cake pops and one does fruit cake. They ship all over the US and have no special permit or license to do it.

Not exactly concrete, but it's enough that if I want to start shipping my baked goods, I would without hesitation with the commercial kitchen's blessing.

My suggestion is to maybe contact a shipper direct like Fed Ex or UPS for rules and regs for your state?
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post #13 of 48
12/15/11 at 12:53pm
Thread Starter 
Agiain . . . lots of good information . . . interesting information . . . yet very conflicting information.

As a small business . . it is really hard to always know what to do and where to even find the guidelines . .

I will keep looking and begin doing what I need to do, by using common sense . . . while still looking. I will document every contact and attempted contact . . so I can at least show a path of really trying to do the right thing. That's the best I can offer.

It won't save my butt in a FINE . .but at least I can try to fight it by showing very good faith . . . I think I have done more than reasonable in attempting to find out what to do.

Jason_Kraft . .

I have contacted that number and left a message . . . if I hear back, I will come back and post what I find out.
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
The King of Pops
TC Pops, A Division of Teddy Cakes, LLC

http://tcpops.com
Reply
post #14 of 48
12/15/11 at 1:48pm
OK here's this:

http://www.fedex.com/cgi-bin/content.cgi?template=eg_pr&content=about/pressreleases/emea/usfoodimportrules&cc=eg

My translation - FDA only applies to foods imported into the US.

Additional guidelines for shipping (various carriersicon_smile.gif
http://old.cbbqa.org/articles/RestrictionsOnShipments.html

Hope this helps further!
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post #15 of 48
12/15/11 at 1:51pm
USDA rules for domestic shipping along with contact information:

http://www.fas.usda.gov/itp/ofsts/us.html
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