I'm going to say something that is pretty unpopular and may get me blasted but I am illegal and I do not advertise. I was illegal for 10 years, doing cakes here and there, never advertising, just doing them as people wanted one, sometimes 1 a month, sometimes 2 in the same week, sometimes none for 3 months, and it didn't even occur to me that I was illegal! People told me i should get cards made and I did. I found out halfway through my box of 1000 that it was illegal, lol! I did stop passing them out. I still do cakes from word of mouth advertising. I don't even have a facebook, though I post my cakes on my personal page.
I have been in the process of getting legal and not going into debt for over 3 years. I bought a house last year, and we just got our plumbing ($3,500) and electric ($2,000) done, and we needed permits for each($250, $150). First, plumbing had to review what was to be done first, which cost $25. I needed a building permit, ($75) and a home occupation permit ($65). The health dept had to view my floor plan ($25), and zoning had to have a plan. ($35) I took a 6 hour food safety last Thursday that cost $75. My rough in for the electrical inspection was $65, and the circuit breaker was too big so they will have to come back ($35) before we complete, and then the final will be another $35. We are insulating $400, drywall $200, wall paint $125, ceiling $200, floor $400, I got double doors to put in the garage door opening $300, lighting fixtures are $200. I got sinks (6 of them, lol per health dept) and cabinets, tables, storage, shelves, cooling rack, crown molding (optional, lol) mixers, bowls, printers, laptop, airbrush, cake projector, mop bucket, mop, quaternary sanitizer, test strips, thermometers, refrigerators, freezers, ovens, stove, 200 pans, hundreds of cookie cutters, and molds and tools and organizational stuff......the list goes on, and I am not done. I still have a big mess in my garage. I will still have the health inspections and licenses and I know I am forgetting some things...insurance, van, ....more stuff....
Anyway, I have been through a lot of time and money, and I will be going through a lot more. I couldn't care less about the lady who does a couple cakes a month for friends and family, but when I see some twit on Craigslist advertising cakes out of her home illegally, I am so going to call her up and ask for her license number. If she can't give it to me, I have the Health dept number in my contacts, and I will be calling! Oh yeah, I need a business line and phone also.
Plus I have 4 gorgeous kids that are so sweet and they want a dog SOO badly, and I have to tell them no. They can have pets when they move out. So sad, I have to be a mean mommy.
Plus I have 4 gorgeous kids that are so sweet and they want a dog SOO badly, and I have to tell them no. They can have pets when they move out. So sad, I have to be a mean mommy.
The example that you're setting for your kids by going about getting licensed and legal is going to make much more of an impact on their lives than having a dog will. If your kids watch their parents follow laws when they're convenient for them, and ignore the ones that aren't convenient, you can expect those kids to do the same thing. Setting a good example is a good thing.
I'm going to say something that is pretty unpopular and may get me blasted but I am illegal and I do not advertise. I was illegal for 10 years, doing cakes here and there, never advertising, just doing them as people wanted one, sometimes 1 a month, sometimes 2 in the same week, sometimes none for 3 months, and it didn't even occur to me that I was illegal! People told me i should get cards made and I did. I found out halfway through my box of 1000 that it was illegal, lol! I did stop passing them out. I still do cakes from word of mouth advertising. I don't even have a facebook, though I post my cakes on my personal page.
I have been in the process of getting legal and not going into debt for over 3 years. I bought a house last year, and we just got our plumbing ($3,500) and electric ($2,000) done, and we needed permits for each($250, $150). First, plumbing had to review what was to be done first, which cost $25. I needed a building permit, ($75) and a home occupation permit ($65). The health dept had to view my floor plan ($25), and zoning had to have a plan. ($35) I took a 6 hour food safety last Thursday that cost $75. My rough in for the electrical inspection was $65, and the circuit breaker was too big so they will have to come back ($35) before we complete, and then the final will be another $35. We are insulating $400, drywall $200, wall paint $125, ceiling $200, floor $400, I got double doors to put in the garage door opening $300, lighting fixtures are $200. I got sinks (6 of them, lol per health dept) and cabinets, tables, storage, shelves, cooling rack, crown molding (optional, lol) mixers, bowls, printers, laptop, airbrush, cake projector, mop bucket, mop, quaternary sanitizer, test strips, thermometers, refrigerators, freezers, ovens, stove, 200 pans, hundreds of cookie cutters, and molds and tools and organizational stuff......the list goes on, and I am not done. I still have a big mess in my garage. I will still have the health inspections and licenses and I know I am forgetting some things...insurance, van, ....more stuff....
Anyway, I have been through a lot of time and money, and I will be going through a lot more. I couldn't care less about the lady who does a couple cakes a month for friends and family, but when I see some twit on Craigslist advertising cakes out of her home illegally, I am so going to call her up and ask for her license number. If she can't give it to me, I have the Health dept number in my contacts, and I will be calling! Oh yeah, I need a business line and phone also.
I love it!!!! This shows that not every single home baker knows it is illegal. People make mistakes, unknown by themselves. I am a hobbyist, and I turn people away all the time because I am not legal. The law is the law. And when I have the money, and I want to spend every waking moment in cakeland, I will become legal. Until then, I have to say, "No, I can't make that cake for you stranger. Thank you for the wonderful compliment though." And I will enjoy my down time when my friends' birthdays are over. Right now they keep me busy enough, I couldn't imagine doing it full time to cover the business.
I just like making cakes! I didn't have the faintest idea that I would have to get a license to bake a cake for someone, the idea never entered my mind. I have a webpage but only so the few people I bake for (family and co-workers) can see the latest cake I made or find out if I can do something before they ask me. Most of the comments I have read here make me think maybe I should stop baking all together! I'm not trying to make a profit, but I would like compensation for my time and the money I put into a cake. After reading this discussion, I feel like a criminal and that I should turn off my oven and throw away my cake decorating tools! Shew! I'm not gonna read this one again-I feel so guilty!
Funny. I was taught a sin is a sin is a sin and to render unto Caesar.
I've never heard of that particular quote before, but after researching it, the implication of "render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's" is a call to follow the laws of the state -- since the state was presumably created by God, disobedience to the rules of the state equates to disobedience to God.
I'm not sure how this aligns with your actual position?
I just like making cakes! I didn't have the faintest idea that I would have to get a license to bake a cake for someone, the idea never entered my mind. I have a webpage but only so the few people I bake for (family and co-workers) can see the latest cake I made or find out if I can do something before they ask me. Most of the comments I have read here make me think maybe I should stop baking all together! I'm not trying to make a profit, but I would like compensation for my time and the money I put into a cake. After reading this discussion, I feel like a criminal and that I should turn off my oven and throw away my cake decorating tools! Shew! I'm not gonna read this one again-I feel so guilty!
If I were you I would make sure your web site does not mention your business activities and is instead just a gallery of cakes you made, or a blog about baking, etc.
Otherwise I don't see a huge problem, just make sure to keep your customer base as small and low-profile as possible...personally I would be nervous about accepting money from co-workers unless they are also close friends. You are still operating illegally, but the risk is pretty low. Don't forget to declare your income on your tax return though.
I just like making cakes! I didn't have the faintest idea that I would have to get a license to bake a cake for someone, the idea never entered my mind. I have a webpage but only so the few people I bake for (family and co-workers) can see the latest cake I made or find out if I can do something before they ask me. Most of the comments I have read here make me think maybe I should stop baking all together! I'm not trying to make a profit, but I would like compensation for my time and the money I put into a cake. After reading this discussion, I feel like a criminal and that I should turn off my oven and throw away my cake decorating tools! Shew! I'm not gonna read this one again-I feel so guilty!
Where are you located in Ky? I looked at your website and you should probably put on there that you are just sharing your cake photos, rather than running a business. It helps that here is no pricing information on there, but I would remove the part about "You tell me what you want and I will do my best to create that special design just for you. The pictures here on my website are just a few of the cakes I have created. Let your imagination be your guide and contact me to make that special cake for your next celebration." Just put on there that you love making cakes and here they are, but you cannot take any orders. Testimonials are a bad idea, and so is the contact page. Don't stop making cakes! Just don't sell them to strangers and don't advertise.
Funny. I was taught a sin is a sin is a sin and to render unto Caesar.
OMG! Reallly?????? You really want to use that here in this conversation?
Yes, 100% a sin is a sin is a sin - in God's eyes. Not man's. AS I SO BLATANTLY SAID.
According to the Bible (most versions, don't know about yours) God considers all sins equal. Gossip is the same as murder.
Does Man? NO! That was my point!
You have first degree murder and you have a minor traffic infraction. Are they treated the same in man's court? Are they really? According to you they are.
Just exactly how ridiculous do we want to get here with this conversation?
How about instead of reporting them... duh..... going to them and giving them a chance to become legal. Then turning them in if the don't? That sounds a little more humanitarian to me and a lot less petty.
The issue with contacting the unlicensed baker directly is that they may respond a number of different ways. It's certainly possible that they will thank you for your concern and start working towards operating legally, but IMO it's more likely that they will take it personally or even retaliate, especially if you are a competitor.
They certainly won't take it as seriously as a call from the health dept. A call from a "wedding planner" inquiring about the license and inspection status of the baker might be a good middle ground as a wake-up call that they could be losing business because of their illegal status.
They retaliate if you call like a jerk and call them on the carpet. If you say it friendly and with concern, not as likely. Not guaranteed, but as not as likely. Let them retaliate, if you are legal - what do you have to worry about? Setting your house on fire? Less than that, who cares?
Like the one poster said - she didn't even know she had to be legal. As soon as she found out, she started taking steps to fix it. Are you saying she didn't deserve a chance to fix it, she should just have had the licensing people turned on her. Sad, IMO. I believe in giving people a chance. Then do what you have to do.
Man's sins (laws) are not all equal as they are in God's yes.
Not to get too OT here, but I sure hope all sins are not equal in god's eyes. That would be pretty messed up.
Not even going into a Theological conversation here. You study your bible, I'll study mine.
For taxes.... you head right to jail, No passing Go, No collecting $200.
Not true. There are significant fines for failing to pay taxes, but only the most egregious cases get jail time.
My point, which was taken out of an exaggerated context yet again, you have a much greater chance of going to jail for tax issues, not for being unlicensed.
Really people, why are such things taken out of such exaggerated context? When you can start living in a glass house - you are more than welcome to start throwing stones at mine and anyone else's you like. I honestly hope that those of you who are quick to call that number never have an issue that could have been taken care of with just a little help from your fellow man - because you absolutely deserve for the law to be called instead and thrown directly to the lions.
but when I see some twit on Craigslist advertising cakes out of her home illegally, I am so going to call her up and ask for her license number. If she can't give it to me, I have the Health dept number in my contacts, and I will be calling! Oh yeah, I need a business line and phone also.
Is this before or after you find out she may have been just like you and didn't know any better?
What really gets me, and I'll never understand, is how I get blasted and all I'm doing is trying to play nice.... trying to show an alternate way of handling this and not be so mean-spirited about it all. This isn't the first time. But it's absolutely the last. I can't do this. I just don't know how to be so mean and talk so curtly to people when life is to short and too sweet to invite this into my world.
There are a lot of really nice people on this board. But there a few not so nice that just outweigh those sweet-peas. My heart is heavy.
I do believe in karma. I do believe in following God's law as well as man's to the best of my ability. Do I screw it up? Absolutely! Every day that I breath (I tend to knowingly have a led foot).
But one thing he says (and I'm paraphrasing here before someone gets their panties in a knot) is every thing nice you do you will be repaid... the same with not nice. It's biblical. AKA: karma.
I prefer to err on the side of giving people a chance to do the right thing. Just sayin'.
If this makes me a bad person and someone worth getting snide with, then so be it. I can certainly live with that before I can live with just jumping the gun and striking before asking questions.
but when I see some twit on Craigslist advertising cakes out of her home illegally, I am so going to call her up and ask for her license number. If she can't give it to me, I have the Health dept number in my contacts, and I will be calling! Oh yeah, I need a business line and phone also.
Is this before or after you find out she may have been just like you and didn't know any better?
After, of course! 
I do believe in karma. I do believe in following God's law as well as man's to the best of my ability. Do I screw it up? Absolutely! Every day that I breath (I tend to knowingly have a led foot).
But one thing he says (and I'm paraphrasing here before someone gets their panties in a knot) is every thing nice you do you will be repaid... the same with not nice. It's biblical. AKA: karma.
I prefer to err on the side of giving people a chance to do the right thing. Just sayin'.
If this makes me a bad person and someone worth getting snide with, then so be it. I can certainly live with that before I can live with just jumping the gun and striking before asking questions.
I do think the discussion has gotten ridiculous, and I think it will be locked soon, and I don't want to get this deleted by posting in the forum, because talking religion is a no-no but you are mixing your religions. The belief in "karma" is Hindu, and God also doesn't take kindly to worshiping false gods. I know a lot of people who are Christian and do Yoga and it doesn't even occur to them that is what they are doing.
But I do agree about giving someone a chance. I know that around here people don't get fined right away, they get a warning, so it really wouldn't be a big deal if I did turn someone in, but I would want to see if they knew what they were doing was illegal and chose to it anyway. I honestly haven't even seen anyone around here I would view as competition, so I can't even say I would care. If they can find someone to buy their sad cakes, more power to them. As long as they advertise their awful cakes and don't have any dummies or someone else's pictures mixed in, then I wouldn't even view that as business, but charity.
What I am concerned about is someone who does good cakes for rock bottom prices because they have no overhead or start up costs. Those people bring the cost down for the licensed people. So, if someone says, "Lisa said she could do this cake for $1 a serving, why are you charging $3?" I can say,"Look at Lisa's cakes! They're crap! If that kind of quality is what you will be happy with, go for it, and good luck getting it into your venue!"
They retaliate if you call like a jerk and call them on the carpet. If you say it friendly and with concern, not as likely. Not guaranteed, but as not as likely.
It really depends on the demeanor of the unlicensed baker. Without having knowledge of said demeanor in advance I would prefer not to take that chance.
Let them retaliate, if you are legal - what do you have to worry about?
Plenty...it is not difficult to tarnish a business's reputation by posing as disgruntled customers on independent review sites, filing fake complaints with various regulatory agencies, etc. Of course the damage can usually be contained, but it's just one more thing to worry about.
Are you saying she didn't deserve a chance to fix it, she should just have had the licensing people turned on her.
If she is advertising her unlicensed business, I am in favor of not getting personally involved and just informing the relevant authorities so they can do their job. I'm not the food safety police, but as a concerned citizen you'd better believe I would let them know when someone is doing something wrong.
Now if I happen to find out from a friend of a friend that someone is baking for money for close friends and family only, and they don't advertise, then I let it slide.
you have a much greater chance of going to jail for tax issues, not for being unlicensed.
Agreed, but even the chance of going to jail for tax issues is still very small.
Really people, why are such things taken out of such exaggerated context?
Which points of yours were taken out of context?
I honestly hope that those of you who are quick to call that number never have an issue that could have been taken care of with just a little help from your fellow man - because you absolutely deserve for the law to be called instead and thrown directly to the lions.
Except in this case, the "lions" would politely inform you of the way out of their den and give you tips on how to avoid lion attacks in the future. 
I hope you don't take my replies personally...some don't like my posting style, but I find it's useful to address each point separately in order to avoid confusion. I can see where you're coming from, and you have every right to get involved personally instead of notifying the authorities when you see someone doing something wrong, but arguing over morality will get you nowhere since everyone has a different moral compass (which may or may not be drawn from a religion).
There could also be a disconnect in terms of different cultures in urban vs. rural environments. If I lived in a small town where I knew all my neighbors personally instead of a city of one million people I might have a different perspective.
Thanks, Jason...I don't see why this thread should get locked unless illegal businesses are offended by business advice and complain about it. In which case you probably shouldn't be posting in the business forum.
The baking business is a rapidly growing boutique industry with experienced business people opening new shops at a rapid pace. In the past, this industry has roots in women's home kitchens, selling to neighbors and friends. This is NOT today's environment. Unless you are in a depressed area, plan on the competition to get tougher and plan for a higher level of baking skills needed to stay in the race. You can do whatever you please until you get caught, just like anyone else breaking the law. But all it takes is one owner disgusted at the blatant disregard for the law to shut you down. If that person chooses to call the local IRS field office instead of the health dept, you really have a problem. And to the person who posted that you don't really get in that much trouble for not paying your taxes... why post such a statement? There is a big difference in filing your taxes, coming up short, and working out a payment plan, and when you are caught with unreported income. The interest and penalties will be with you for years and is designed to make you never want to be in that position again.
Jasonkraft begins his posts with fact, either by looking it up before he posts, or from education. He is careful about separating his opinion from the opening fact. Many other experienced and successful business people try to share lifelong business knowledge on this site. Rebutting with emotion and feelings, and your opinion that you are ok until you get caught, is your right in a public forum. But it does not make it sound business advice. Fortunately, bakers who think they are business people , and run their shops on their rules rather than law and education, are easy to put out of business when a licensed business opens up shop. Every day the internet is becoming a requirement for business growth and survival. This is one playing field where the illegals will not be allowed to play. Maybe you can be there today, but I highly doubt that presence in the future. Just like the discussion about using the net to find copyright and trademark violators, law inforcement, the IRS, and licensing agencies will find this medium an easy forum to seek out voilators. And the easy part is that the evidence will be in the perpetrators own publicly published words.
Just like the discussion about using the net to find copyright and trademark violators, law inforcement, the IRS, and licensing agencies will find this medium an easy forum to seek out voilators.
A story I've shared before: A caterer friend was working out of her home. Within 30 days after her website went live, she got the dreaded knock on the door and found the HD inspectors standing there. She was shut down that day. They told her that the HD Boss had told the staff, "Scour the internet and shut down the home businesses" and that's how they found her.
Within 30 days. 
The good news is that it motivated her to do it right and get legal, and she found a church kitchen to rent. Until then, though, she was in a panic about the caterings she had on the books with no place to work out of.
That's like comparing a murder or rape to illegally selling a cake. We are not God. Man's sins (laws) are not all equal as they are in God's eyes. OMG! In my eyes, that is quite overboard. If that were the case we would serve severe time for speeding.
For many of us, those of use who are honest, anyway, we started in this business and it just kind of grew and then we realized this is not a hobby. I need a license. No body woke up one day, who had never decorated a cake and said I'm going to open a cake business.
If you sell your cakes to anyone.. EVEN AT COST.... you are selling cakes. The IRS and business license people want to know about it. I can honestly say I turned in every penny of income I had when I still considered it a hobby and hadn't gotten a license yet.
And, yes, anyone who gets caught has brought this on themselves. But I'm not putting the bad karma on my head for those times I fail to follow a rule (Oh I forgot - we follow all rules 100% of the time).
If I don't tell the mom her kid is riding without a helmet, my kid may very well be hurt doing something I need to know about. If I don't call the police when a peeping Tom is seen across the street, I deserve what ever bad thing happens to me. If you all want to go those extremes, go for it. Take it from someone who has been raped and beaten up and spent time in ICU over it... these situations are not even close in what's reportable and what's not. Was that karma? I highly doubt it. I was just the chosen one at that moment. And I do know it wasn't from not doing the right thing or at least not attempting to do the right thing.
Under no circumstances do we mess with Mr. Tax Man. The business license people and Health Dept people will merely shut you down. The fine may even cause you to lose your house. But it's highly unlikely you will go to jail. For taxes.... you head right to jail, No passing Go, No collecting $200.
How about instead of reporting them... duh..... going to them and giving them a chance to become legal. Then turning them in if the don't? That sounds a little more humanitarian to me and a lot less petty.
I never got notified of these responses, so I know this thread has died down. However, I did want to clarify. I asked not because I'm considering trying to get legal. I've checked into it and my house just isn't set up to allow for a rennovation just to bake the occasional cake. I aslo have 2 dogs and refuse to get rid of them for the occasional cake. I asked because I was curious. I wanted to know, for the family and close friends only baker I am, is there any point to getting a liscense? I get that if I were selling my cakes it would be the legal thing to do, but since I can't do it in my home I have, I can't do it at all, legal or not. Anyway, just wanted to know if I'm not selling, if getting liscensed would be just so I could say, "hey I have my liscense."
I know someone who got licensed just to bake (without making money) for friends. Just wondered if there was a good reason to do so that I was unaware of.
I know someone who got licensed just to bake (without making money) for friends. Just wondered if there was a good reason to do so that I was unaware of.
It's really a matter of your own tolerance for risk and the enforcement in your area. In some areas health depts are very aggressive about shutting down unlicensed bakers, while in other areas tacit approval is given for operating without license. As long as you don't advertise and limit your orders to people who will work with you to resolve a bad situation instead of suing you, your risk is relatively low.
If you can find a commercial kitchen or incubator in your area that charges by the hour with low or no minimums, you could have the best of both worlds -- you would be able to advertise and legally sell baked goods without looking over your shoulder while still keeping your up-front and operating costs relatively low. Plus you'll get to use higher quality commercial-grade equipment and have more prep space.
Of course, it is still very important to declare this income on your taxes, even if you don't have a license. The IRS doesn't mess around.
I know someone who got licensed just to bake (without making money) for friends. Just wondered if there was a good reason to do so that I was unaware of.
It's really a matter of your own tolerance for risk and the enforcement in your area. In some areas health depts are very aggressive about shutting down unlicensed bakers, while in other areas tacit approval is given for operating without license. As long as you don't advertise and limit your orders to people who will work with you to resolve a bad situation instead of suing you, your risk is relatively low.
If you can find a commercial kitchen or incubator in your area that charges by the hour with low or no minimums, you could have the best of both worlds -- you would be able to advertise and legally sell baked goods without looking over your shoulder while still keeping your up-front and operating costs relatively low. Plus you'll get to use higher quality commercial-grade equipment and have more prep space.
Of course, it is still very important to declare this income on your taxes, even if you don't have a license. The IRS doesn't mess around.
Sounds DIVINE!! Another couple weeks!
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