I started it, let's talk about it... - Page 4

SCP, I like and agree with what you said and how you said it.

What makes your area more expensive?

CakeDiva101, I have an accounting/ economics degree. Free enterprise is one of my strongest beliefs. Competition and market placement are some of the most exciting parts of a business. But legal businesses are on a level playing field. An illegal business cuts corners such as IRS/state tax (the big ones), expenses required to comply with the law for the license (equipment, construction), insurance, planning commission approval, engineering permits, yearly license fees, and plenty more. The law provides that level playing field and it is up to the entrepreneur to maximize profits and minimize expenses. It's how you play that game that determines your income. I have no problem with any legitimate business. I know enough to know that if my business fails, it is my fault... not properly positioning my business in the market, or not controlling expenses/profits. Awareness of illegal businesses is important also. I don't compete with any of these illegal bakers, but it is a irritant because they think it is ok for me to spend the money, but the law doesn't apply to them.

K8, a separate kitchen is allowed, but I filled out the same aplication as Applebee's would submit. The requirements are so steep that this area automatically qualifies for FDA approval. I have a finished above ground basement and my bakery uses about 800 squre feet of that space. I had to have three different pumping stations, a 500 gallon grease trap in the yard that either feeds into a separate drain field, or ties into my existing one. My required three basin sink is 9 feet long... big enough to immerse a half sheet pan 2/3 in water and drains on both sides, self-closing hinges on the doors, a venting system that pushes the air a certain speed, floor drains, hand sink, mop sink, and a pest control contract. I had to run separate electric and the plumbing requirements were expensive. My husband is a builder/developer as a second occupation and our construction costs were about $20,000. The estimates we got were much higher, so we did it ourselves.This is a full commercial kichen with no restrictions, but that was the only option. I privately saved for most of this and then surprised my husband with the money when I told him my plan. He is so supportive and loves my business as much as I do.

In addition to everything scp11 said -

Illegal businesses not only lowers the local asking price of products/services, at times it also lowers the quality of said items. What good does it do to buy a cake from someone who bakes illegally out of their home, only to end up with something that should be published on cakewrecks?

I am in no way saying that all illegal bakers suck. But there are a lot of them out there that do.

Theresa

Anna, I have no problem with your kind of "illegal". Everyone does business with friends and family. People like to say, "I know my baker personally", and they may have only thought of a custom cake because they know you or know of you. I agree, when people step out of their circle and solicit strangers, that's crossng the line.

After visiting the site, I can see where you are coming from. Also the obscene amount of copyrighted infringements she is doing.

If she just lived across the river, it would be a whole different story since Ohio is one of the easiest states to have a home-based bakery. There are a couple in my area that do not even follow this, which is even more irritating since Ohio has a cottage food industry and very easy to be legal. They also sell their products practically free (one for $1/serving). I am pretty average for my area and a little lower than the storefront businesses, but about the same for home businesses, but there is no way can I go to $1.00 per serving.

That is just crazy! How can somebody make any money only charging $1.00 a serving? Even illegal! Make you wonder what kind of product they are putting out!

I know! When I was "starting out" with my first pay cake, I was given that because I had no clue, and I was 16, so it was an honor to do the cake. (It was a diabetic wedding cake, 2 tiers. I made my own powdered glucose in the blender!) It was also in the mid 90's so cakes were a little cheaper then!

I figure my costs (shopping at Walmart for ingredients, and going to Sugar cr@ft in Hamilton once a month supplies, and emergency trips to Micheal's or Hobby Lobby) are about .45 a serving. .55 cents a serving profit is about $2.50 an hour, depending on the cake! It could be much less, or a little more. I suppose it is better than nothing, but I would be bitter and not enjoy it for 1 second.

I think alot of you guys have alot of unrealistic views, I am a "illegal baker" and I have a reg 40 hr well paid job. With that being said I have kids and bills. I do not have the time or money to waste on giving away free cakes. So until I can make enough money to own a bakery this is what it is. Is it wrong? Opinions may vary, but the reality is it supports me and my family. Also for generations there were women who made cakes out of their home like your grandmother or aunt. Let's not forget that's were some of yall got started. So with that being said I hope you "Legal bakers" keep in mind not everyone has the same allowance to get started as you...

Everybody breaks the law, whether you speed, bake and sell cakes under the radar, etc. We all do it. Does it make it right? Of course, not, but we all have at one time.

With that said, should you break the law that is there to protect the consumer and you? It's not like the law is there just because they want to make it hard on you. It's there to protect people.

So if you decide to sell illegally because you've justified it in your head that everyone has done it so it makes it okay for you to do it, then fine. It doesn't make it right and you are opening yourself up to hurt when people come at you complaining about the cake, cancelling checks, not paying, etc. because you can't take them to court since you're illegally selling. Don't expect to be respected by other bakeries in the area that you are competing with because you are breaking the law and they very well never did.

It always annoys me over these topics that you have one half that justifies breaking the law because everyone does it and the other half condemns the law-breakers as if they've never broken a law before in their life. It's so silly.

Yes, you did say it was tricky!

If a "separate kitchen, three compartment sink or commercial dish machine"
is not commercial equipment, what is?

And the separate kitchen is what I was talking about. I view "home kitchen" as the one without the special stuff, the one that you cook for your family in. (That you cannot bake commercially in) I view the separate kitchen, whether it is in your home, or in a retail location, or on the moon, as a commercial kitchen. (The one you CAN bake commercially in.)

Therefore, usin the logic above, you cannot bake from your "home kitchen". If people want to split hairs and call the separate kitchen in the garage with all the requirements a home kitchen because it is located at your home, then I guess I may have to join the club. Maybe I'll go outside and stand under one of my home trees, next to my home pool, in the home snow, that is all over my home grass, and just think about it for a while (and maybe start smoking again after all this drama). But for now, I'm going to my "original" home kitchen and bake a cake, vacuum my home floor, then clean my home bathroom, do some home laundry, clean my home boys' home room (Are we still home? I thought that was at school?) and get ready for my husband to come home home. (And by home boys' I mean my kids, not a rap group, or all my thug friends. I'll clean their room on Monday.)

ok you got us! of course everyone has sped. but this is a cake forum, so let's compare apples to apples here and stick with the subject.

for all you illegal bakers out there...if you want to bake illegally and continue to do so even though you know it's wrong, that's up to you. but don't come on here looking for justification, and for those who did it the legal way to say "oh, it's okay...do what you need to do." b/c most likely it's not going to happen.
some of you talk about how caking helps provide for your family...well what happens when you get one bad customer who wants to make your life a living hell? they can sue you over anything...we live in a litigous society. it can be from getting someone sick, to delivering on the wrong day, to having the wrong shade of blue on the cake...it does happen! and although the case may get thrown out, you will still have to spend money defending it/paying them out of court, whatever!

and for me, with the whole "you can do cakes for family and friends and accept some money" debaters, i still say "no." and here's why...where do you draw the line? i come from a huge family and i've lived in the same town for 25 years and know a lot of people. and of course, everyone's your friend when you do cakes if i totaled up all of the money i would have charged these people when i was doing free cakes for "family and friends" for two years, i would have made $10,000+. that's ten grand i'm taking away from other bakeries in the area.

at some point, you have to say, i either choose to do things the right way, or i choose not to. it's up to you.

seriously? you can't even have a fun debate and look at things from a larger perspective just because you think only apples and apples should be compared? sometimes to get a point across, you can't stick to one subject. that's why great debators, are, well, great!

In the fun spirit of great debate

If they hadn't gotten a free cake from you, would they have gotten one from somewhere where they would have had to pay? If so, then it is still "taking from other bakeries in the area"

But that is also like saying that I do my laundry at home, so I am taking money from the laundry mat. But I take my comforters to Coin Laundry, up the road, so I am taking money from Laundry Queen. Or the time DH dropped the kids off at my mom's with dirty clothes for the next day.(I was having a baby 3 weeks early) She washed them! I guess she took the money from the laundry mat, or from walmart, because she used her own detergent from Big Lots, and if I had used my own from walmart, then I would have to buy more.

Most successful cake artists, especially those who started maybe 20-25 years ago, started at home, unlicensed. Period. I did...people in this thread did....and I know for a fact many successful and well known cake artists did as well. I'm still not running a full time business here....2-3 cakes a week, max. My first responsibility is to my kids...and that's how it will stay. I was glad to finally be able to save up enough cake money to buy my license and insurance 3 years ago.

I think its a personal choice (yes, its law...yes...its a choice.). And I also do not feel threatened by the tons of unlicensed bakers we have in our area. I need to concentrate on making MY licensed business the BEST and highest quality it can be. That takes enough effort, and will keep my customers ordering...if I'm the best, I don't have to worry about people "stealing" my orders. They say if you are running a race, you should not look back to see where the competitors are...because it will slow you down. Just a thought.

The only thing that totally annoys me about this discussion is that we have newer cakers that get on...ask a question about a cake they did for their neighbor, and suddenly all the CC police come and say "Ummmm! You aren't allowed to do that!!! UMMMM!!!!" Its so wearing. Just answer the cake question...ya know? There are plenty of "licensed" threads on this board without turning 50% of the threads into that debate.