I Want To Kick This Customer To The Curb (Sorry, Long)

Decorating By pmarks0 Updated 15 Nov 2010 , 11:22pm by Adecakes

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millermom Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 12:51pm
post #31 of 106

MAKE SURE you re-adjust the price as you add the extra tier, flags, etc! thumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gifthumbs_up.gif

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Karen421 Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 1:34pm
post #32 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Don't lie about the box mix - people can tell the difference (I certainly can). Just tell her that you don't possess the skill required to make scratch cakes well, and as this is important to her, she will need to find another baker. That's the simple truth.




Oh my gosh! I so agree! If nothing else, don't lie about your recipe, this will most definitely come back to bite you! I bake both ways and most of my friends and family prefer the box as a base recipe. You can never go wrong with the truth. icon_lol.gif

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saffronica Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 2:11pm
post #33 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarks0

But now that it's three tiers (assuming she accepts the new price) I'm thinking I should buy the black and red fondant. If I buy Duff's red and black at Michael's, with a coupon 2lbs will cost $18 each. I figured 1lb of each would be used so I was going to add $18 in the new price.




A couple of thoughts:

1. Don't waste your coupons on her. Use them for something YOU want, and let her pay full price for the fondant.

2. Unless you have a use for the remaining fondant, it will go to waste, and so will your money. If you have to buy two pounds of fondant just for her, she pays for both pounds. Otherwise you're losing money on fondant that you will just have to throw away. And I wouldn't even consider coloring white fondant red and black -- it's very difficult, and it will just make you even more bitter while you work on this awful woman's cake.

3. I very much agree with the other posters who have said that sometimes dealing with a difficult customer means getting rid of them (especially here, where you're not even making any money). I used to work for a guy who would, on very rare occasion, tell PITA customers that they needed to talk to our new customer service manager, Mrs. Waite, first name Helen. Then he would smile really big while he told them they could go to Helen Waite. icon_smile.gif

Good luck with this one.

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scp1127 Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 2:20pm
post #34 of 106

safronica, my dad had a feed and seed store when I was growing up. When he had had enough of a PITA customer, he would refer them to his customer service manager. They would go to the office and there was a cage with a real (not nice) spider monkey in it with a sign on top, "customer service manager". Maybe cake business people could use a spider monkey now and then.

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cakesdivine Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 2:28pm
post #35 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Don't lie about the box mix - people can tell the difference (I certainly can). Just tell her that you don't possess the skill required to make scratch cakes well, and as this is important to her, she will need to find another baker. That's the simple truth.




Not everyone can. In fact I have done blind side by side taste tests and 99% of the time they said the box cake was scratch and the scratch cake a box. Their reasoning...the moister the cake then it must be scratch...LOL! You can tell the difference because you are a baker/caker icon_smile.gif The average lay person cannot tell the difference.

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nhbaker Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 2:55pm
post #36 of 106

Man, is turning 50 like some kind of "right of passage" or something for some women??? I just went through a VERY similar situation. Had a woman (yes, turning 50) throwing herself a big bash w/a live band, etc., etc. Was a former co-worker of my father's (and my niece's boss this summer).

Same basic story with her - had a million details of things she wanted/didn't want, spent many hours coming up with designs for her only for her to say she really just wanted a basic sheet cake (her budget was $50 for a cake for 50 people!!). WHAAATTTT???!!!!

Well, luckily that was my opportunity for an out. I don't offer sheet cakes. So I sent her a nice email explaining that to her and gave her two names of people that might be able to help her out. She was fine with that and thanked me for my help.

(Here's the kicker -- my parents went to that party and although they never saw the cake, they did come home with bunch of crappy "favors" -- a much more important expense than a decent cake, right??!!).

I would do as the others have suggested (RUN!!). No, seriously, take advantage of the "out" opportunity she's given you. Tell her you're sorry but all your cake recipes have a box mix as an ingredient as you find they make the best cakes. Would you rather take a chance of making her a scratch cake she won't like and possible trash your rep by anything she might say to people about it?

Sounds like you've already put in more effort than the $100 so you're already in the hole and I think you've had enough "experience"!

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LKing12 Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 2:59pm
post #37 of 106

So, making a 4 inch to eat the next day makes this a 3 tiered cake and, more than just a "50" on top makes this the same cake that you priced to her at $200.00. She has just walked you around the block hoping you would forget!

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TexasSugar Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 3:20pm
post #38 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarks0



Are they homemade cake? I do not want boxed cake at all. Would these not have the standard filling in the middle to join both cakes.

.I tend to bake with a mix as a base as there can be more error with a scratch cake. Now she's talking "standard filling"...she has no clue.




I would NOT bake a recipe you are not comfortable with for anyone. If she has had your cakes before then she already knows what they taste like.

As far as the filling, by telling you she didnt want a fruit filling she thought she was cutting costs. At that point, I would have pointed out that fruit filling doesnt cost extra because if I dont do fruit I still have to do butter cream.

At this point I would have given a reply that clearly states that your cakes start with a mix as a base, and if she is not comfortable with that, then she should find another person to do her cake. And again if she has had your cakes before I would point out that she already knows how good your cakes are.

I would also sit down and talk to your husband. And explain to him exactly what good practice needs to be. Good practice is not dealing with a customer (dont care who she knows or doesnt know) and giving her a labor free deal, unless he expects you to do that for all your cakes. This woman is clearly taking advantage of you, and your husband is just helping her do so.

From now on, handle all orders as orders. The rule I have with people I know is if you ask me to do a cake, then you pay for it, all of it, labor and all. If I offer, then it is free. I dont do family discounts, I dont do friends discounts, I dont do wow you know someone I know discounts. My time is worth something!

Another thing, even if you are doing a cake at cost I would never, ever give them a breakdown on what it costs me. Personally I feel like they can take it or leave it. She clearly told you she only wanted to spend $100 on a tiered cake. At that point you should have asked her what she could get from the Walmart bakery for $100 because that is where she needs to be shopping instead of wanting a custom made cake for nothing.

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MikeRowesHunny Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 3:34pm
post #39 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesdivine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Don't lie about the box mix - people can tell the difference (I certainly can). Just tell her that you don't possess the skill required to make scratch cakes well, and as this is important to her, she will need to find another baker. That's the simple truth.



Not everyone can. In fact I have done blind side by side taste tests and 99% of the time they said the box cake was scratch and the scratch cake a box. Their reasoning...the moister the cake then it must be scratch...LOL! You can tell the difference because you are a baker/caker icon_smile.gif The average lay person cannot tell the difference.




I can tell the difference because I only eat real food. If it didn't come from as natural a source as possible, I don't eat it. No chemical additives & preservatives, no HFCS, no hydrogenated fats (vomit), therefore my palate can detect artificial, chemical laden crap a mile off. Thank God I live in a country where most people still retain their real food palates too and appreciate real cake & icings thumbs_up.gif

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torysgirl87 Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 3:43pm
post #40 of 106

I wouldn't do it.

The fact that you are doing it a 'cost' is her reason for attempting to take advantage of you, and she is still trying to get over. I learned a while ago to become unavailable when people try to use me. You cannot walk into any established business and haggle the price on the item.

If you feel you must do this cake, then this applies I suppose, if you are a home baker. Give her a list of everything that is needed to make this cake, let her buy it and bring it to you. This will put the responsibility on her. And by all means give her a deadline!

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torysgirl87 Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 3:44pm
post #41 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesdivine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Don't lie about the box mix - people can tell the difference (I certainly can). Just tell her that you don't possess the skill required to make scratch cakes well, and as this is important to her, she will need to find another baker. That's the simple truth.



Not everyone can. In fact I have done blind side by side taste tests and 99% of the time they said the box cake was scratch and the scratch cake a box. Their reasoning...the moister the cake then it must be scratch...LOL! You can tell the difference because you are a baker/caker icon_smile.gif The average lay person cannot tell the difference.



I can tell the difference because I only eat real food. If it didn't come from as natural a source as possible, I don't eat it. No chemical additives & preservatives, no HFCS, no hydrogenated fats (vomit), therefore my palate can detect artificial, chemical laden crap a mile off. Thank God I live in a country where most people still retain their real food palates too and appreciate real cake & icings thumbs_up.gif




How presumptuous. thumbsdown.gif

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DefyGravity Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 3:48pm
post #42 of 106

Tell her how you make your cakes and put an end to design changes. If she's fine with it, cool, you have 4 weeks without having to deal with her anymore until you drop the cake off. If she's not fine with it, cool, she'll go to someone else.

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Kellbella Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 4:17pm
post #43 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by torysgirl87

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesdivine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Don't lie about the box mix - people can tell the difference (I certainly can). Just tell her that you don't possess the skill required to make scratch cakes well, and as this is important to her, she will need to find another baker. That's the simple truth.



Not everyone can. In fact I have done blind side by side taste tests and 99% of the time they said the box cake was scratch and the scratch cake a box. Their reasoning...the moister the cake then it must be scratch...LOL! You can tell the difference because you are a baker/caker icon_smile.gif The average lay person cannot tell the difference.



I can tell the difference because I only eat real food. If it didn't come from as natural a source as possible, I don't eat it. No chemical additives & preservatives, no HFCS, no hydrogenated fats (vomit), therefore my palate can detect artificial, chemical laden crap a mile off. Thank God I live in a country where most people still retain their real food palates too and appreciate real cake & icings thumbs_up.gif



How presumptuous. thumbsdown.gif




Ditto!!! icon_surprised.gif <Mike Rowe probably loves the "fake food" we eat in this country icon_wink.gif

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snowboarder Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 4:29pm
post #44 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesdivine

The average lay person cannot tell the difference.




If you mean the average layperson where you come from, ok. But the average layperson where I come from can tell the difference.

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step0nmi Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 4:37pm
post #45 of 106

even if you do make this cake for her....she is NOT going to be happy with it. she's going to find anything to be wrong with it to get her money back. I would run NOW!!!

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Mama_Mias_Cakes Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 4:39pm
post #46 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesdivine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Don't lie about the box mix - people can tell the difference (I certainly can). Just tell her that you don't possess the skill required to make scratch cakes well, and as this is important to her, she will need to find another baker. That's the simple truth.



Not everyone can. In fact I have done blind side by side taste tests and 99% of the time they said the box cake was scratch and the scratch cake a box. Their reasoning...the moister the cake then it must be scratch...LOL! You can tell the difference because you are a baker/caker icon_smile.gif The average lay person cannot tell the difference.



I can tell the difference because I only eat real food. If it didn't come from as natural a source as possible, I don't eat it. No chemical additives & preservatives, no HFCS, no hydrogenated fats (vomit), therefore my palate can detect artificial, chemical laden crap a mile off. Thank God I live in a country where most people still retain their real food palates too and appreciate real cake & icings thumbs_up.gif





Real cake and icings...c'mon. You have been here long enough to know how ugly these kind of topics get. Why do you feel the need to start this again. The only thing you will succeed at with your argument is getting this thread shut down for the OP, who wanted advice and/or a place to vent. thumbsdown.gif

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torysgirl87 Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 5:31pm
post #47 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellbella

Quote:
Originally Posted by torysgirl87

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesdivine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Don't lie about the box mix - people can tell the difference (I certainly can). Just tell her that you don't possess the skill required to make scratch cakes well, and as this is important to her, she will need to find another baker. That's the simple truth.



Not everyone can. In fact I have done blind side by side taste tests and 99% of the time they said the box cake was scratch and the scratch cake a box. Their reasoning...the moister the cake then it must be scratch...LOL! You can tell the difference because you are a baker/caker icon_smile.gif The average lay person cannot tell the difference.



I can tell the difference because I only eat real food. If it didn't come from as natural a source as possible, I don't eat it. No chemical additives & preservatives, no HFCS, no hydrogenated fats (vomit), therefore my palate can detect artificial, chemical laden crap a mile off. Thank God I live in a country where most people still retain their real food palates too and appreciate real cake & icings thumbs_up.gif



How presumptuous. thumbsdown.gif



Ditto!!! icon_surprised.gif <Mike Rowe probably loves the "fake food" we eat in this country icon_wink.gif




I thank my God for being able to eat...period. There are many countries where the majority of the population cannot say as much.

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Kellbella Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 5:36pm
post #48 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by torysgirl87

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellbella

Quote:
Originally Posted by torysgirl87

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Quote:
Originally Posted by cakesdivine

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeRowesHunny

Don't lie about the box mix - people can tell the difference (I certainly can). Just tell her that you don't possess the skill required to make scratch cakes well, and as this is important to her, she will need to find another baker. That's the simple truth.



Not everyone can. In fact I have done blind side by side taste tests and 99% of the time they said the box cake was scratch and the scratch cake a box. Their reasoning...the moister the cake then it must be scratch...LOL! You can tell the difference because you are a baker/caker icon_smile.gif The average lay person cannot tell the difference.



I can tell the difference because I only eat real food. If it didn't come from as natural a source as possible, I don't eat it. No chemical additives & preservatives, no HFCS, no hydrogenated fats (vomit), therefore my palate can detect artificial, chemical laden crap a mile off. Thank God I live in a country where most people still retain their real food palates too and appreciate real cake & icings thumbs_up.gif



How presumptuous. thumbsdown.gif



Ditto!!! icon_surprised.gif <Mike Rowe probably loves the "fake food" we eat in this country icon_wink.gif



I thank my God for being able to eat...period. There are many countries where the majority of the population cannot say as much.




I agree with you tory!

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dreamcakesmom Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 5:47pm
post #49 of 106

At this point I would send a polite but direct email that addresses 2 issues:

1. You bake from box mixes. Regardless of what you add it is stillat the core a boxed cake so if she specifically stated she wants scratch you should inform her of this and let her make a decision

2. Give her a deadline of when the final design has to be completed with NO Changes! Either send her a contract or a very specific email that contains every little detial you are doing on the cake including the final price, delivery time, location etc.

You need to put an end to this lady's roller coaster ride. Get in the driver's seat and take control of the situation

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khoudek Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 6:03pm
post #50 of 106

I haven't read through all the responding posts, but I'm sure someone else has recommended this: CAKE CONTRACT. All wishes, payment requirements, delivery or pick up, ability to make last minute changes are spelled out. Both you and customer get copies. She can't conveniently forget what she's ordered or the cost, and if any changes are made the contract will stipulate timeline and cost adjustments. Just because she's a worker buddy of your husbands doesn't mean she gets special treatment. They're the ones that you tend to really need the contract with. Good luck with this.

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WykdGud Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 6:13pm
post #51 of 106

I don't understand how you calculated the COST of this cake to be $200. I would have been pissed if I were this woman - if I were told the cake was being done at cost and then told it was that much is ridiculous. I've been doing cakes for years and have my own business, and my COST for a 3 tier cake is under $50 (depending upon what goes into it). Are we talking American dollars here?!?

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all4cake Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 6:23pm
post #52 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmarks0

But I can't because she's a colleague of my DH and he views her as "good practice" for dealing with difficult people. Except that if she wasn't a colleage (notice I don't use friend) I wouldn't have done this for her.


Sorry about the long vent.




"Well, hon. I got good practice in. It didn't take long to figure out that I won't be dealing with difficult people. I gave her a list of other decorators for her cake needs icon_biggrin.gif "

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all4cake Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 6:29pm
post #53 of 106

I would definitely inform her that her total had to be readjusted to allow for r&d for a scratch cake...her cost was based on your mixed based formula

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Texas_Rose Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 6:34pm
post #54 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by WykdGud

I don't understand how you calculated the COST of this cake to be $200. I would have been pissed if I were this woman - if I were told the cake was being done at cost and then told it was that much is ridiculous. I've been doing cakes for years and have my own business, and my COST for a 3 tier cake is under $50 (depending upon what goes into it). Are we talking American dollars here?!?




Our OP is in Canada. Not much difference in the currency exchange rate, but who knows what ingredient prices are like there?

I know that my cost on a three tier cake is more than $50 and that's with me making MMF, not purchasing fondant. I don't have a business though, so I have to buy my ingredients at the grocery store instead of wholesale.

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Ruth0209 Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 6:37pm
post #55 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by tesso

After the 15th email I would have tasered her, left a note on the body that read, hope my free electric shock therapy helped you. Here's a list of bakers in the area. Happy Birthday. icon_lol.gif




BEST response ever!

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playingwithsugar Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 6:47pm
post #56 of 106

I don't sell cakes, but I can tell you that adding a box of pudding per 2 boxes of mix, plus 2 tablespoons of water and 5-10 more minutes in the oven per doctoring, will give you a cake that nobody will be able to tell wasn't from scratch.

Theresa icon_smile.gif

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Ruth0209 Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 6:49pm
post #57 of 106

I am absolutely appauled that anyone would suggest lying to a customer. I don't care who she is or how much of a pain she's been, no professional business person lies to her customers. If she told you she wants a scratch cake, either do it or tell her you can't. It is absolutely unethical to do otherwise. And it doesn't make a bit of difference whether she could tell or not. It's simply wrong.

People complain on this site (and in this thread) all the time about customers who don't treat them with respect or honesty. Well, folks, you get what you give. If you're willing to be deceitful with your customers then you better expect that treatment to be returned to you. It's no way to run a business.

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KimmyKakes4Me Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 7:09pm
post #58 of 106

People prefer the moist box mixes? Of COURSE it's "moist", it's full of OIL and pudding and crap to make it seem moist. OIL does not equal moist. OIL=greasy! I love that my customers walk away a little educated about box mixes, grocery store crap, and how a perfectly baked scratch cake is the best thing you could put in your mouth.

Disclaimer:

Comments not meant to insinuate box are not good, because they are in some circumstances. Just not any of my circumstances.

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Karen421 Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 7:13pm
post #59 of 106

I would just like to say that I turned 50 this year, and I didn't go wacky! I didn't even have a cake!! So, it's not all of us icon_rolleyes.gif

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gatorcake Posted 2 Sep 2010 , 7:42pm
post #60 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by playingwithsugar

I don't sell cakes, but I can tell you that adding a box of pudding per 2 boxes of mix, plus 2 tablespoons of water and 5-10 more minutes in the oven per doctoring, will give you a cake that nobody will be able to tell wasn't from scratch.

Theresa icon_smile.gif




Frankly I do not care whether someone likes a box over a scratch cake but to assume that just by adding pudding and some water means no one will be able to discern the difference between a scratch and a box cake is disengenuous.

There is more to assessing the taste of a cake then how moist it is. Adding pudding may make a box more moist but that does not mean that folks will not be able to ascertain differences in crumb, texture, flavor, etc. And not all scratch recipes are equal.

Type and quality of ingredients both influence the outcome of a cake. For a particular box cake those for the most are standardized by brand. However scratch recipes vary significantly and produce different cakes. Keep in mind I could careless about which is preferred, this is only addressing the fact you cannot tell the difference.

Take for instance a chocolate cake. Whether a chocolate cake recipe uses chocolate or cocao powder or both. The quality of chocolate also matters. It is also not uncommon for chocolate cake to include coffee and the strength and quality of that coffee most definitely impacts the flavor. Does a cake use butter, oil, or shortening--they all impact more than the moistness of cake. What flour is used, cake and all purpose flour produce different textures.

Types and quality of ingredients all influence the flavor and texture profiles of a cake. To say that no one can tell the difference because of two boxes of pudding is simply relying on folks with undeveloped senses of taste who judge a cake merely on its "moistness." There is more to a cake than how moist it is. And folks most certainly can tell because of things such as crumb, texture, and flavor the difference between boxes (even doctored ones) and recipes.

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