Shortening Can Be Troublesome & Controversial
Decorating By chubbyalaskagriz Updated 12 Aug 2010 , 9:55pm by Rose_N_Crantz
I was unaware the cake buying public was so vocal about icing. Most cake civilians that I encounter have no idea what's in the icing.
Same here and in my experience, people are more concerned about the taste than how the taste was created.
I'm not getting in on the shortening vs. butter debate BUT...On the lard sandwich....I never had one, but being a farm girl growing up in the 50's was privy to many a home killed hog. If you have never had fresh rendered lard, you probably could not imagine it. As a child, I couldn't wait until the pig got big enough to butcher so I could smell the marvelous aroma of the lard rendering pot and the best treat, better than any candy were Cracklin's. The skin with a little fat after the lard had been rendered out. Now that is "good eats".
I agree with a PP - who cares?
What I really love is that the OP threw this out there for debate and hasn't returned since 
Ok adding my 2 cents...LOL
I do a non-cooked stablized meringue based buttercream. I use equal parts butter to hi-ratio shortening. Also add a little cream cheese to make the butter flavor really pop. My icing uses less sugar therefore is absolutely LOVED by all my clients and everyone who has ever tasted it. I use to use Crisco until they changed their recipe to no trans fats so I switched to hi-ratio. Wishing I had done that YEARS ago. It took my icing recipe to a whole new level. It was great before, now it is irresistable. It does not crust due to the meringue and less sugar, but I prefer it like that.
I've been a hobby baker for years and I was definitely a butter only snob and then only european unsalted butter. But when I got into cake decorating recently, I found all butter frosting to be, well not practical to decorate with it. I still use an all butter on my cupcakes most of the time, use seriouscakes recipe of mostly butter and some hi ratio shortening to frost sheetcakes or large orders of cupcakes. But as I'm going to try to do some wedding cakes, I would definitely use either indydebi's or sugarshacks recipe (haven't decided yet - need to make them and decide). I think their recipes provide a more foolproof frosting that won't melt, tastes good, and most importantly will look great.
Also, it must be California, but everyone I know always asks about ingredients in food. It doesn't matter if they know anything about baking or not. I've been asked about what kind of butter I use and if I use shortening or not, what kind of chocolate by brand etc. by people who don't even bake. People here are obsessed with food ingredients and it is not necessarily allergy related.
What I really love is that the OP threw this out there for debate and hasn't returned since
There have been quite a few "drive bys" here lately, haven't there?
This is a much loved hobby for me (for now) that I have been doing for nearly a year. My butter based BC usually becomes very runny in no time , so I mainly use this as a crumb coat or filling. Tried a sweetex based recipe from Cooks Cake & Candy supply and every body LOVED it. 
Every month I plan to try a new recipe and test it with my co workers. 
They might now be the best judge since they have loved nearly everything, even my disasters. 
LOL I hope the recipes mentioned in the thread are on CC so I can try them. 
Cath..I'd rather have sop my bread in roast drippings than have lard sammies anyday! LOL
LOL! "SOP"! I thought only my family knew that word existed. We use it as a verb & a noun.
Who cares if your buttercream recipe is shortening or butter-based? I didn't have a clue what icing was made of until my best friend's mother enlightened me several yrs ago. I never really asked what it was made of. She just told me to shock me I guess.
What I really love is that the OP threw this out there for debate and hasn't returned since
There have been quite a few "drive bys" here lately, haven't there?
Yep.
Try making your buttercream with shortening without that added flavoring--a la the Wilton buttercream--and see how many of your clients prefer shortening based buttercreams.
This logic just escapes me.
Are you implying that all foods should be made the same, or should be made "plain" to get a good taste comparison? Or all foods should be prepared the same way otherwise the taste test is null and void?
I like scrambled eggs, fried eggs and egg salad, but I cannot just bite into a whole hard boiled egg. Under your logic I can't say I like eggs unless I eat a plain hard boiled egg ...... even tho' I like them scrambled together with a little milk topped with some melted cheese.
My husband doesn't like apples. But he loves applesauce and apple pie. Again, under your logic, he can't make that statement because the applesauce and the pie is "doctored up" to "taste better". He likes fresh bananas, but asking him to compare a fresh apple to a fresh banana and decide which he "reallY" likes better is .... well, not logical.
We should throw all food competitions out the window unless we require all competitors to make the same food the same way? Geesh, talk about a boring show! "I proclaim the winner to be ....... everyone!" (Or no one!)
Saying that a good comparisoin between crisco and butter based recipes are unfair because flavorings are added is silly to me. I could decide that "butter" is a flavoring (you can buy that in a bottle, right?) so why not just add a drop or two to any crisco-based icing and voila! A "fair" comparison.
Illogical logic gets on my last nerve.
Well since you decided to get personal (and snide) my point is rather simple so let me try again since you have seemed to miss it. You want to have it both ways. You want to call it buttercream without being limited by the ingredients that make something a buttercream and then hold American style buttercream to the standard recipe. Talk about llogical. Placing aside for the moment that shortening based icings are not buttercreams (talk about illogical) American style buttercream is a standard recipe fairly simple.
Real buttercreams are not made with Dream Whip, coffee creamer, or whatever other powdered ingredient is put into icings made with shortening to make them taste good. Make icing with shortening and not add something like Dream Whip it tastes aweful--or do you really not believe that the recipe you were given would be anywhere near as popular without adding Dream Whip to it? When you add those to shortening based icings you are adding an ingredient that changes the flavor profile and if you added that same ingredient to real buttercream it would change the flavor profile as well.
Your point is utterly nonsensical, your claim is I can add an additional ingredient that changes completely the flavor profile of the product compare it to something that does not have that ingredient and then say well my clients like it better. Of course they do, they like the Dream Whip. That does not mean it is better than buttercream all it means it is better than the recipe of buttercream you are using that does not contain Dream Whip.
Does this mean every icing has to be made the same? No but I am not the one claiming shortening based icing is buttercream and better than buttercream. What I am saying is shortening based icing, which is called buttercream, is prefered because of additional flavoring which those making it choose not to add to real American buttercream--note they would not be made the same if whip topping was added to both--one would be made with butter the other made shortening icing thus answering your claim they all have to made the same.
And your examples are utterly laughable. Applesauce does not purport to be apples. Peanut butter does not purport to be peanuts (relevant for those calling shortening based icing buttercream). The fact that your husband does not like apples is irrelevant to the question of what makes a good applesauce. If you are going to address an argument, it would help if you examples actually spoke to the argument. Talk about making my head hurt.
Under my logic the appropriate example would be to take apples out of applesauce and replace it with say oh tofu and a whole bunch of refined sugar. Then do a taste test and claim that this "applesauce" is better than applesauce because people like the sweet flavor. Not only is not applesauce, people would be reacting to the sugar not the apple or tofu, try adding more sugar to applesauce and see what happens.
[quote="cakeprof"][quote="mamawrobin"]
As has been said repeatedly in this thread, what it all comes down to is what one's customers are happy with.
Try making your buttercream with shortening without that added flavoring--a la the Wilton buttercream--and see how many of your clients prefer shortening based buttercreams. Given the number of comments about the Wilton brand I bet you would find them preferring something else.
Indydebi's buttercream is the best shortening based buttercream I have tasted--period--no doubt about it. But it is because of the Dream Whip, take that out and it is no different than the Wilton brand which I do not even like to use for practice---might accidentally lick that nasty stuff off my fingers.
Point is this Indydebi's or Sugarshack's buttercreams are not the standard for how they should be made they have ingredients added to them not in the standard buttercream recipe. And comparing them to buttercream with butter without adding additional flavorings does not mean that people like shortening based buttercreams better. It means they prefer the icing with whatever flavor additive that has been added to enhance the taste that is one and not the other.
This has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Did you invent buttercream? If not, then you really can't say what is "standard" or "correct" . Like bullying in grade school, this seems to be a symtpom of insecurity. Let it go.
This has got to be one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard. Did you invent buttercream? If not, then you really can't say what is "standard" or "correct" . Like bullying in grade school, this seems to be a symtpom of insecurity. Let it go.[/quote]
[i]Buttercream (also known as butter cream or butter icing) is a type of icing used inside cakes, as a coating, and as decoration. In its simplest form, it is made by creaming butter with powdered sugar, although other fats can be used, such as margarine. Colorings and flavorings are often added, such as cocoa powder or vanilla extract. Buttercreams are a popular topping for cupcakes, sponge cakes, butter cakes and other desser[/i]ts.[/b]
My mother has got to be one of the pickiest stuck up eaters alive God bless her. I remember her always sending me to the bakery as a kids "You make sure you get the 'real' buttercream not that fake stuff" LOL. Yet just the other day I decided to try a shortening based recipe vs the butter/shortening I usually do and dang it if she wasn't in the kitchen at midnight eating it with a spoon! You should of seen her face when I told her she was eating Crisco haha. Oh well she is a believer now! Who cares what the icing base is and what name it is called by....if you dont like it, then dont make it but dang mind your own......
how about everyone stop placing judgements on eachother and go bake a cake! Your Way!!!! i'M JUST SAYIN
LuluSweet...that is a funny story about dipping your finger into the can of Crisco as a kid. Reminds me of my mother telling me they were so poor as a kid they ate lard sandwiches .....ewww. But that was back in the depression days too. She was not a fan of crisco or lard! Lol
I've heard older people mention eating lard sandwiches too .... can't imagine! But if its the only food ya got, then sometimes you just eat it or starve!
When I read the hand-in-the-crisco-in-the-mouth story, it cracked me up.
I think we've all got a story or two like that in our lives! But not eating crisco-icing because of what straight-crisco tastes like is like not eating chocolate because of what cocoa-straight-from-the-can tastes like!
Definitely heard my grandmother refer to "fat-back" sandwiches. I think that's like just the fat part of bacon or some other part of a pig, fried til crispy and put on a biscuit, leftover from breakfast. Well, she's 85 years old now, and still doing fine! LOL Back to shortening in icing.....
This is making me laugh...the whole thread....funny CC'ers...he he he!
Who cares if you use crisco or butter as long as your cake looks & tastes good. Down here in the heat of August (115'f heat index) no one in their right mind would use all butter unless the cake was to stay in the fridge!!
People are used to what they like & like what they are used to. So enough already!!
Try making your buttercream with shortening without that added flavoring--a la the Wilton buttercream--and see how many of your clients prefer shortening based buttercreams.
This logic just escapes me.
Are you implying that all foods should be made the same, or should be made "plain" to get a good taste comparison? Or all foods should be prepared the same way otherwise the taste test is null and void?
I like scrambled eggs, fried eggs and egg salad, but I cannot just bite into a whole hard boiled egg. Under your logic I can't say I like eggs unless I eat a plain hard boiled egg ...... even tho' I like them scrambled together with a little milk topped with some melted cheese.
My husband doesn't like apples. But he loves applesauce and apple pie. Again, under your logic, he can't make that statement because the applesauce and the pie is "doctored up" to "taste better". He likes fresh bananas, but asking him to compare a fresh apple to a fresh banana and decide which he "reallY" likes better is .... well, not logical.
We should throw all food competitions out the window unless we require all competitors to make the same food the same way? Geesh, talk about a boring show! "I proclaim the winner to be ....... everyone!" (Or no one!)
Saying that a good comparisoin between crisco and butter based recipes are unfair because flavorings are added is silly to me. I could decide that "butter" is a flavoring (you can buy that in a bottle, right?) so why not just add a drop or two to any crisco-based icing and voila! A "fair" comparison.
Illogical logic gets on my last nerve.
Well since you decided to get personal (and snide) my point is rather simple so let me try again since you have seemed to miss it. You want to have it both ways. You want to call it buttercream without being limited by the ingredients that make something a buttercream and then hold American style buttercream to the standard recipe. Talk about llogical. Placing aside for the moment that shortening based icings are not buttercreams (talk about illogical) American style buttercream is a standard recipe fairly simple.
Real buttercreams are not made with Dream Whip, coffee creamer, or whatever other powdered ingredient is put into icings made with shortening to make them taste good. Make icing with shortening and not add something like Dream Whip it tastes aweful--or do you really not believe that the recipe you were given would be anywhere near as popular without adding Dream Whip to it? When you add those to shortening based icings you are adding an ingredient that changes the flavor profile and if you added that same ingredient to real buttercream it would change the flavor profile as well.
Your point is utterly nonsensical, your claim is I can add an additional ingredient that changes completely the flavor profile of the product compare it to something that does not have that ingredient and then say well my clients like it better. Of course they do, they like the Dream Whip. That does not mean it is better than buttercream all it means it is better than the recipe of buttercream you are using that does not contain Dream Whip.
Does this mean every icing has to be made the same? No but I am not the one claiming shortening based icing is buttercream and better than buttercream. What I am saying is shortening based icing, which is called buttercream, is prefered because of additional flavoring which those making it choose not to add to real American buttercream--note they would not be made the same if whip topping was added to both--one would be made with butter the other made shortening icing thus answering your claim they all have to made the same.
And your examples are utterly laughable. Applesauce does not purport to be apples. Peanut butter does not purport to be peanuts (relevant for those calling shortening based icing buttercream). The fact that your husband does not like apples is irrelevant to the question of what makes a good applesauce. If you are going to address an argument, it would help if you examples actually spoke to the argument. Talk about making my head hurt.
Under my logic the appropriate example would be to take apples out of applesauce and replace it with say oh tofu and a whole bunch of refined sugar. Then do a taste test and claim that this "applesauce" is better than applesauce because people like the sweet flavor. Not only is not applesauce, people would be reacting to the sugar not the apple or tofu, try adding more sugar to applesauce and see what happens.
Humm cakeprof,
That means that I cannot call my award-winning chicken and rice that?
After all, I add seasonings, chicken, special sauces and other things to white rice to make my special recipe. What a shocker! Perhaps we should call our shortening-based icing Criscocream or Shortcream! That way, we might be able to make peace with some cake snobs here!
Referring to the title, I think this thread has become "troublesome and controversial." We are here to support and HELP one another, not argue about what constitutes buttercream.
Getting the correct definition of "buttercream" seems to be super-important to some people. I for one use both butter AND hi-ratio shortening in my recipe, so where does that leave me? 
There is nothing that will be accomplished by continuing this thread. No one in the industry is going to stop calling their version of buttercream anything different just because someone thinks they should. If it ain't broke, don't fix it - and this ain't broke. Let it go...
Well, the "is the Cricut cheating?" thread has been deleted. It's only a matter time til this one follows.
If you don't to use shortening in your buttercream, THEN DON'T! I think I made that pretty clear and simple. Do whatever you feel necessary in YOUR life to make YOUR cakes the way YOU want to. Please do not tell ME what I can put or not put in MY buttercream! If I want to add chicken feathers to my buttercream, then guess what? It's my OWN buttercream recipe. Maybe someone's got too much time to dwell on what other people are doing.
I will put whatever I want in my buttercream and guess what? I'm gonna sleep like a baby tonight.
Off the subject, bring on the cracklins! I love me some fat!
Well, the "is the cheating?" thread has been deleted. It's only a matter time til this one follows.
Do you mean this one:
http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopic-691469-0.html?
It's still alive and kicking.
Well, the "is the cheating?" thread has been deleted. It's only a matter time til this one follows.
Do you mean this one:
http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopic-691469-0.html?
It's still alive and kicking.
That's the one. The link in the email notifying me of a response led to a page that said the topic did not exist. maybe the thread was just moved.
Thanks redpanda!
I agree with Debbie ....people that ask me for a cake, have no clue what its made of........I use shortening alone or I add a stick of butter etc..........this is very descrimanatory against shortening....and quite snobbish if I may be so bold ....I mean I am not a pastry chef but I know what tastes good.....thats what makes the world go round...viva la differance!! little francais there hehe
Well I guess I am one of "those" people who has nothing better to do tonight because this thread is better than the Jerry Springer show hahaha
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