Warning About Licensed Characters And Copyrighted Material

Business By Rachel5370 Updated 31 Jul 2010 , 3:55pm by costumeczar

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Katiebelle74 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 4:55pm
post #61 of 180

I really would like a clearer understanding on the gray area of using deco packs or even licensed toys on cakes (where the cake is the background) I had a couple cakes like this and I pulled them off my site as I am just not sure if it's kosher or not. It is an option I have offered my customers as I thought it was "safe".

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costumeczar Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 6:28pm
post #62 of 180

Why is it that people don't like the idea of abiding by copyright law, but as soon as someone takes a picture off of their website and puts it on their own, they pitch a high holy fit about stolen pictures?

I'll tell the story again about why Disney is protective of their images. One of my friends lives in Madrid every summer while her husband teaches there. There's a park near where they stay that has a bunch of panhandlers who hang out there and wear costumes of cartoon characters, then try to get you to pay to take pictures of them. My friend was at the park and her kids got a good look at Minnie Mouse with her head off taking a smoke break. They were also followed by Spiderman, who freaked the kids out so bad they were terrified of the real Disney characters when we went to Disneyworld together.

I've written to a bunch of sports teams and received permission for limited use licenses for their team logos, it's not impossible to do. You just have to make the effort. They also don't like to have their logos used on your website, for the most part, even if you do have the license.

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Cindy619 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 6:41pm
post #63 of 180

Regarding wedding invitations, etc... here's my thoughts...

For illustration purposes, lets pretend we are looking at an invitation that has a tree branch with owls on it.

If you are using the invitation as your "inspiration", using the same colors and the idea of tree branches on your cake and "generic" owls, then you should be fine.

However, if you are "copying" the design - same colors, same tree branch shape, exact reproduction of the owls, etc. then you MAY be infringing on copyright laws.

The reason I say "MAY" is because in many cases when you have a piece of artwork (invitations, etc) designed for you, upon payment you obtain the rights to use the artwork as you deem fit. Below is an exact quote from a contract from a graphic designer,

"Upon full payment, the client shall obtain ownership of the final artwork to use and distribute as they see fit."

Therefore, the bride may have the rights to use the artwork however she chooses - invitations, cake, place cards, etc. It is good practice to ask the bride if she has rights to the artwork and if she is unsure, contact the original designer - 9 of 10 times you'll get a thumbs up (okay, I just made that statistic up based on my personal experiences - so don't hold me to it icon_wink.gif )

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CWR41 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 7:15pm
post #64 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy619

The reason I say "MAY" is because in many cases when you have a piece of artwork (invitations, etc) designed for you, upon payment you obtain the rights to use the artwork as you deem fit. Below is an exact quote from a contract from a graphic designer,

"Upon full payment, the client shall obtain ownership of the final artwork to use and distribute as they see fit."




From my experience, when you have someone design something for you, they have two prices; one price for one-time use, and another price for unlimited use (in which case you now own it, and the designer can no longer use it for anyone else).

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shanney54 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 8:39pm
post #65 of 180

They need to have some kind of class that goes over all this stuff!!! Someone needs to have one at the ICES convention, or the like, so we can know what we can and can't do legally.

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ceelyon Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 10:27pm
post #66 of 180

If a decorator, hand draws or carves a design of t he character, is that
still copyright? Providing you are not using the cake pans, and the same colours?

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cheatize Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 10:53pm
post #67 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceelyon

If a decorator, hand draws or carves a design of t he character, is that
still copyright? Providing you are not using the cake pans, and the same colours?




You are still reproducing the image.

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cheatize Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 10:54pm
post #68 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy619

Regarding wedding invitations, etc... here's my thoughts...

For illustration purposes, lets pretend we are looking at an invitation that has a tree branch with owls on it.

If you are using the invitation as your "inspiration", using the same colors and the idea of tree branches on your cake and "generic" owls, then you should be fine.

However, if you are "copying" the design - same colors, same tree branch shape, exact reproduction of the owls, etc. then you MAY be infringing on copyright laws.

The reason I say "MAY" is because in many cases when you have a piece of artwork (invitations, etc) designed for you, upon payment you obtain the rights to use the artwork as you deem fit. Below is an exact quote from a contract from a graphic designer,

"Upon full payment, the client shall obtain ownership of the final artwork to use and distribute as they see fit."

Therefore, the bride may have the rights to use the artwork however she chooses - invitations, cake, place cards, etc. It is good practice to ask the bride if she has rights to the artwork and if she is unsure, contact the original designer - 9 of 10 times you'll get a thumbs up (okay, I just made that statistic up based on my personal experiences - so don't hold me to it icon_wink.gif )




Doesn't the copyright transfer to the company that made the invitations in this scenario?

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tannersmom Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 11:52pm
post #69 of 180
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Cindy619 Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 1:25am
post #70 of 180
Quote:
Quote:

Doesn't the copyright transfer to the company that made the invitations in this scenario?




??? Slightly confused at what you are talking about. I'm referring to when a bride hires someone to design their wedding invitations/artwork. The creator of the image holds the copyright and as I mentioned, in some cases when the bride pays for the image she gains the rights to it. Are you referring to the printers? If you supply an image to someone to have it printed, they do not gain the rights to your image. Let me know, so maybe I can clarify the info better.

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lauriekailee Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 1:59am
post #71 of 180

I was looking at some photo's on here from the superhero's contest. Does that not create a violation to the copyrights also then?

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nelikate Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 2:09am
post #72 of 180

I found an similar discussion on Planet cake's forum. Interesting reply from Planet cake's owner Paris.

http://www.planetcake.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=551

Nel

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DiviniDee Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 2:14am
post #73 of 180

Having looked into the copyright issue, it is all gray as far as cake decorating. NO one no matter how good you are will get the exact replication of the image and it is all open to interpretation by the cake artist. Also it is my understanding that the copyrighted image must have been paid for in addition to the price of the cake, so that a portion of that money belongs to the owner of the copyright. As long as the price of the cake is not increased based on the image, it is not an issue. One last point that I understand in the gray issue of copyright for cake decorators, is that the Cake artist must be guity of reproducing the image several times within a years time.

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ceelyon Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 2:32am
post #74 of 180

Hi again
So by reading the law about copyright. It is ok, that the customer
purchases licenced figure and then the decorator can use it on the cake?
So then why does wilton, and cake supply store rent out pans and
wilton has all these books for sale>not everyone has kids or is
getting married. Has these stores purchased the licensed on behalf
of there customers.
Or do we have to contact the owner to get permission, and then
forward there monies? If were are not sure, then most kids like the
fiqures, and we will need to say no.
Jean
icon_smile.gif

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Suzisweet Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 2:50am
post #75 of 180

Just curious if anyone knows whether or not cake show competitions shown on, I believe Food Network, showing cake artists making Sesame Street characters, etc. got permission. This may be a silly thing to ask but there will be people who look at those cakes being made and figure it is ok. I also read the post by Paris at Planet Cake and she clearly feels that people should be able to do these cakes and her biggest point being they are perishable. I am not saying I agree or disagree as I myself will admit to doing this for my son and to be honest I never really gave it any thought until now.

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Cindy619 Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 2:58am
post #76 of 180
Quote:
Quote:

Just curious if anyone knows whether or not cake show competitions shown on, I believe Food Network, showing cake artists making Sesame Street characters, etc. got permission.




Yes! And from what I read on Kerry Vincent's Facebook, it's quite the long, drawn out process with strict rules and regulations!

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Suzisweet Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 3:01am
post #77 of 180

Cindy,
Thanks! I guess I should go read her posted information as well seeing she is in the US.

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Cindy619 Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 3:09am
post #78 of 180

I think it would be a great idea if the Food Network, etc. started the show off with the disclaimer about obtaining the rights to reproduce the copyrighted characters, etc. It might clear up some of the confusion!

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Joyfull4444 Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 3:27am
post #79 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug



Just like when cakes are made of copyrighted materials the owners don't find it humorous when others mess with the original work.




Doug.. You're avatar is a copyright image. Wouldn't using Calvins image be the same as using someones copyrighted image on a cake?

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cheatize Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 3:52am
post #80 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy619

Quote:
Quote:

Doesn't the copyright transfer to the company that made the invitations in this scenario?



??? Slightly confused at what you are talking about. I'm referring to when a bride hires someone to design their wedding invitations/artwork. The creator of the image holds the copyright and as I mentioned, in some cases when the bride pays for the image she gains the rights to it. Are you referring to the printers? If you supply an image to someone to have it printed, they do not gain the rights to your image. Let me know, so maybe I can clarify the info better.




oOo. I added in one more middle man. I thought you were saying a graphic designer sold the image to a card company and then the bride buys the cards from the card company. I must have read too fast or something.

Yes, I believe that if the bride buys all the rights to the design, the bride gets to decide who does what with the design as long as the bride defends her copyright when it's violated. However, I'm no lawyer. LOL

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auntiecake Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 4:21am
post #81 of 180

Sooo....... if Wilton and other companies would stop making the licensed character pans, etc knowing that it is doubtful they will sell many for a one time use, it would solve "part" of the problem. The same w/decopacs expecting people to use the background suggested. The majority of homemakers don't know how to reproduce the background or even frost a decorated cake. Then you have the problem of quality replicating the image. I understand the reason, etc., but there are so many gray areas and inconsistencies of the way the law is enforced. They should make character pans that can only be used once like the disposable ones and then it would also be easy to enforce. I question to ebay, Debbie Brown's books, etc. Where do they draw the line. I understand the point also thay drive the market which makes the consumer want this type of product ( licensed caks be they character, sculpted, molded, decopac, etc) Cabbage Patch dolls a few years ago were replicated w/patterns, VERY look alike heads, instructions etc that you saw all over because of the unavailabilty of getting the real thing. Just putting some points out there. I understand, but it can be and is very confusing with a lot of gray area in some cases.

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7yyrt Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 4:32am
post #82 of 180

Why would a copyrighted avatar image be a problem?
There is no money involved whatsoever.

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auntiecake Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 4:36am
post #83 of 180

Is it a problem too?

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Suzisweet Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 4:38am
post #84 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7yyrt

There is no money involved whatsoever.




There is no money involved when you make a cake for your own child using copyrighted images but many have said it is still illegal.

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7yyrt Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 4:55am
post #85 of 180

I can make a Spiderman cake for my grandson without it being illegal.

I have no idea who said it wasn't legal.

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auntiecake Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 5:01am
post #86 of 180

Then buying a Wilton pan is illegal?????? I understand that you are buying the copyright when you buy the pan for home use, which would include making it for your child. Why don't they make them disposable and then they would have limited uses (two or three of your own children) Home use could be interpreted as an aunt making it at home for her niece or nephew. A grandmother making it for her grandchildren. A babysitter making it at home for a special child she takes care of. Selling them on ebay is an exchange of money that doesn't benefit the copyright either. This can be very complicated and be debated forever, which it has been on cc many times.

At home for your own child w/no money involved I suppose is when it is pictured publicly

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auntiecake Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 5:04am
post #87 of 180

Ooops I hit the wrong button Is publicly is spelled wrong if it is even a word. I need to be quiet and go to bed. I am just rambling and not making any sense. Sorry!

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auntiecake Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 5:06am
post #88 of 180

7yyrt

??????? not sure!

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jackmo Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 5:13am
post #89 of 180

wilton sells those charactor pans and on the paper it says for home use only. that means you can make a cake for you child, grandchild, miece nephew. But you can not use the pan to make cakes for sale.

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Joyfull4444 Posted 28 Jul 2010 , 6:26am
post #90 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7yyrt

Why would a copyrighted avatar image be a problem?
There is no money involved whatsoever.




I wasn't saying it was a problem at all, it was a comparison question. I love Dougs avatar.. I brought it up because of whats being said on this thread. I'm reading the comments to mean that anything thats copyrighted cannot be used in any way without paying for it. I'm certainly not agreeing to everything being said here though as its more than confusing.

Disney gives Witon the right to make a character pan if Wilton pays Disney money to do so.
Wilton makes money by selling us the character pan. We now own the character pan. We bake a cake in the pan, we take the cake to little Susies party up the road. All of a sudden we're in big doodoo with the Disney police because we baked a cake in a copyrighted pan, without paying Disney for the right to do so.

How does any of that make sense? Its nonesense. Why would Disney bother to allow character pans or cake toys to made and sold to the public if they're so uptight about copyright infringement?

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