Warning About Licensed Characters And Copyrighted Material

Business By Rachel5370 Updated 31 Jul 2010 , 3:55pm by costumeczar

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mbark Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 1:12am
post #31 of 180

IndyDebi, as usual, makes an excellent point. I think it's just frustrating to feel like our hands our tied in some ways to copy designs/figures, but there are certainly alternatives. As long as I can make my son a Spongebob cake all is well.

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Unlimited Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 1:18am
post #32 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

It has everything to do with preserving the integrity of the creator's work.




Exactly thumbs_up.gif
That's why they do approve the use of sugar or plastic lay-ons for cakes... they just want to ensure that only quality and approved images are used rather than someone's poor interpretation of their characters.

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Unlimited Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 1:29am
post #33 of 180

Keep in mind, when asking for permission to use copyrighted material, if you ask in what capacity you might be able to use their image they might approve it with slight changes required. For example, I don't recall all of the details, but we know someone who was granted permission to use the Strawberry Shortcake character IF they simply used another type of fruit on her dress other than strawberries... not a bad compromise, so it doesn't hurt to ask if a similar alternative design can be okayed.

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cattycornercakes Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 1:30am
post #34 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited

Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

It has everything to do with preserving the integrity of the creator's work.



Exactly thumbs_up.gif
That's why they do approve the use of sugar or plastic lay-ons for cakes... they just want to ensure that only quality and approved images are used rather than someone's poor interpretation of their characters.




Good point...I never really thought about the quality control aspect.

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Rose_N_Crantz Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 1:48am
post #35 of 180

I think a lot of people seem to forget about DecoPac. Only "grocery stores" use those right?

And for good reason. They don't need to contact Disney or Marvel or DC Comics or Nickolodeon or whoever for permission. If they buy the kit, they buy the rights to use that kit and resell it. Granted, they have to decorate the cake as shown on the little instruction card, but some of those cakes are pretty darn cute.

I think we just need to keep in mind that we are not being "prevented" from doing character cakes, we are simply being "limited". And as the OP quoted Kerry, "it'll only make us better designers."[/i]

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lauriekailee Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 1:59am
post #36 of 180

"indydebi" I completely understand the issue of people making money from their trademarks...it is the issue that they market these things to children to get them hooked on it, the parents spend hundreds of dollars abiding by the trademark and buying their items, toys movies etc, then the mother has a friend bake her child a cake of the passion the company wanted them to have, and they can sue them? I'm sorry, but that is wrong! That is the part I have a problem with.

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indydebi Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 2:09am
post #37 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by lauriekailee

"indydebi" I completely understand the issue of people making money from their trademarks...it is the issue that they market these things to children to get them hooked on it, the parents spend hundreds of dollars abiding by the trademark and buying their items, toys movies etc, then the mother has a friend bake her child a cake of the passion the company wanted them to have, and they can sue them? I'm sorry, but that is wrong! That is the part I have a problem with.


so where do you draw the line?

Disney is not saying you can't have a Mickey Mouse cake. Disney is saying they want to control the quality of THEIR intellectual property and, btw, it's wrong for someone else to make a profit off of THEIR creation.

If your child wants a Mickey Mouse cake, it's real easy to order one with a Deco Pac decor .... all nice and legal.

What's the problem? icon_confused.gif

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cakeprof Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 2:38am
post #38 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by lauriekailee

"indydebi" I completely understand the issue of people making money from their trademarks...it is the issue that they market these things to children to get them hooked on it, the parents spend hundreds of dollars abiding by the trademark and buying their items, toys movies etc, then the mother has a friend bake her child a cake of the passion the company wanted them to have, and they can sue them? I'm sorry, but that is wrong! That is the part I have a problem with.




I am not sure what is particularly wrong in the situation you describe. In fact the situation you describe the child hooked on particular character or set of characters is precisely why you cannot make a cake with those characters. The cake is simply another product, along with the toys, movies, etc. that you have to pay for. You have to pay for the Toy Story 3 plates, napkins, party favors, why does this mean you do not have to pay for a cake.

If you want the character cake for your child you have to pay for it, just like the films and toys. Simply because the child wants the cake because they have been hooked on the toy does not mean the parent gets to get the a cake without paying for a license to create it (whether it be a character pan or the kits others have mentioned).

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lauriekailee Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 2:38am
post #39 of 180

sorry, I don't know how you reply with the quote inside it.

To me the line is drawn when this is being made by people for their own use. Not to advance their business, whether you pay for it or not. And I am not a mom! But I think when you have paid money to buy their products and you want your child to have a cake like the toys they have, that is fine. If everyone knows you personally made it, why is that affecting the integrity of the trademark? They are having fun, giving their child something to remember. Have we all forgotten the part of enjoying life! Please, understand. I am not refering to people selling cakes with the trademark infringement. I am only talking about the personall use. Isn't that why all of us post our pictures on this site??? To show others what we have done to share with them?? provide ideas for others?? why is that a bad thing if you are not taking money away from them??

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Doug Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 2:46am
post #40 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by lauriekailee

why is that a bad thing if you are not taking money away from them??




ok...

supply me with a portrait of yourself.

let me have some fun with photoshop.

and then see how you like it when I post the photoshopped renditions of you all over the net clearly saying this is you.

--

I'm sure that while I may find it humorous, you won't.

Just like when cakes are made of copyrighted materials the owners don't find it humorous when others mess with the original work.

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Jeep_girl816 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 2:56am
post #41 of 180

Ok, I know the no-nos of copyrighted images, I get the whole financial gain and even protecting the integrity of the copyrighted characters but I also own several Debby Brown books that show you how to make some of these copyrighted characters, for home use of course, so whats the deal with these? I don't think they specify that the cakes/figures need to be made excatly the way she did them, is it because the books are from the UK? I'm not trying to argue one way or the other just wondering what the deal is, if these cakes fall into the forbidden category?

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cakeprof Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 3:10am
post #42 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by lauriekailee

sorry, I don't know how you reply with the quote inside it.

To me the line is drawn when this is being made by people for their own use. Not to advance their business, whether you pay for it or not. And I am not a mom! But I think when you have paid money to buy their products and you want your child to have a cake like the toys they have, that is fine. If everyone knows you personally made it, why is that affecting the integrity of the trademark? They are having fun, giving their child something to remember. Have we all forgotten the part of enjoying life! Please, understand. I am not refering to people selling cakes with the trademark infringement. I am only talking about the personall use. Isn't that why all of us post our pictures on this site??? To show others what we have done to share with them?? provide ideas for others?? why is that a bad thing if you are not taking money away from them??




To quote a post look at the top right of the message you want to quote and you will see a little quote button--click it it will include it.

How is it that you are not taking money from them? If you want to make a Buzz Lightyear cake you can buy the licensed character pan or a DecoPac (I am assuming there is one). The holders of the copyright have been paid already for the pan. You buy it you make the cake for personal use--they have gotten their royalty. You decide hey I want to make a Buzz Lightyear cake I can frozen butter cream transfer or make him out of chocolate---you are not paying a royalty to Disney like you would if you used the character pan. Hence you are taking money away from them--it is the same if you walk over to your neighbors house and rip their Disney DvDs. You would not be purchasing a product for which they receive a royalty.

There is no personal use exception and your self-designed cake would not qualify as a fair use exception. And whether or not you take money from them is technically irrelevant as you do not have the right to profit (in its widest sense) from the work of others (even if this profit is a happy child). It is not unfair, it is not your intellectual property. Folks cannot come of the street randomly and enter your residence, you cannot just decide to use someone else's creation.

And I do not understand why people keep insist on using giving your child something to remember as a reason to justify making your own character cake. There are plenty of ways to make character cakes where the holder of the copyright gets compensated and you get to give the child the birthday of their dreams. These are not mutually exclusive. If you want that birthday, then you have to pay, including for the cake. No one is saying you cannot have the character cake, you just cannot have it because you do not feel you should have to pay for the right to use someone else's intellectual property.

Oh and just to be clear I am not saying you should not make the cake for the child. I am merely just trying to clarify what is and what is not a violation. I am simply saying there is a risk to doing it. Realistically there is little to be gained from them going after the parents who decided to make a character cake for their child. But Disney could come after you. I am also not saying it is okay to make the cake--just be aware that it is an infringement and would you want that to happen to your work?

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Jeep_girl816 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 3:18am
post #43 of 180

I wonder if any copyright holders that are concerned with the artistic integrity of their characters have been over to "Cakewrecks" lately icon_lol.gificon_lol.gificon_lol.gif

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lauriekailee Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 4:08am
post #44 of 180

"doug"


Nice to take one line of my email and take it out of context.

I'm talking a mother who has already paid royalties by buying movies, toys, ect. making a cake that doesn't leave her house and gets eaten in a few hours.

If you want to change my picture, have at it...won't bother me at all. I get your point, but I think you are missing mine. As I said, I'm not talking of the business ripping them off, or the person who makes the design look awful and shows it to everyone.

i don't need a lecture everyone on how this affects the integrity of someone's design. That isn't anywhere near what I am referring to.

don't we have bigger worries in the world than someone making elmo's hair the wrong shade?

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BORIKS03 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 4:21am
post #45 of 180

Does this include designs on invitations, party supplies etc?

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CWR41 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 4:24am
post #46 of 180

Does this include designs on invitations, party supplies etc?

Yes... see page #1, post #1.

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scp1127 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 4:27am
post #47 of 180

It is the LAW!!! Copyrights protect the creator. It doesn't matter if you "think" it is fair. This world would be a far different place without them. Would you want to depend on a knock-off MRI machine with your life, not knowing it is not the real thing? It protects free enterprise and makes way for the development of the things we need and enjoy.

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indydebi Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 4:28am
post #48 of 180
Quote:
Quote:

I'm talking a mother who has already paid royalties by buying movies, toys, ect.




you mean if I buy a pair of Nike tennis shoes, then that allows me to use the Nike logo all over the place? My son in law wears nothing but Nike .... so I can sew him a new shirt and put the Nike logo on it just because I bought a pair of Nike shoes? once? years ago? icon_confused.gif

Where do you draw the line?

I see posts on this topic all the time, and my PERSONAL opinion is that people draw the line at "....all of that is ok for the copyright owner to do unless it's something that *I* want to use and then they're being selfish."

Just a personal point of view ..... icon_rolleyes.gif

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lauriekailee Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 4:31am
post #49 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by cakeprof

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauriekailee

sorry, I don't know how you reply with the quote inside it.

To me the line is drawn when this is being made by people for their own use. Not to advance their business, whether you pay for it or not. And I am not a mom! But I think when you have paid money to buy their products and you want your child to have a cake like the toys they have, that is fine. If everyone knows you personally made it, why is that affecting the integrity of the trademark? They are having fun, giving their child something to remember. Have we all forgotten the part of enjoying life! Please, understand. I am not refering to people selling cakes with the trademark infringement. I am only talking about the personall use. Isn't that why all of us post our pictures on this site??? To show others what we have done to share with them?? provide ideas for others?? why is that a bad thing if you are not taking money away from them??



If you want to make a Buzz Lightyear cake you can buy the licensed character pan or a DecoPac (I am assuming there is one). The holders of the copyright have been paid already for the paYou buy it you make the cake for personal use--they have gotten their royalty. You decide hey I want to make a Buzz Lightyear cake I can frozen butter cream transfer or make him out of chocolate---you are not paying a royalty to Disney like you would if you used the character pan. Hence you are taking money away from them




if you buy the pan, and use it 30 times, they get no more royalties than if you use it once! so that doesn't quite make their argument. i completely get what you are saying, i just think to go after a mother at home not bothering anyone is being petty when there are so many others that are violating the same thing and not being looked at.

THAT IS ALL I AM TRYING TO SAY.

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lauriekailee Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 5:14am
post #50 of 180

indydebi, I get what you are saying...I am not making cakes that violate copywrights, and I am not making or selling anything to violate the trademarks. I am only offering a different way to look at it.

Guess that kinda thing is frowned upon on here without getting personal.

I am not violating any rights and am not trying to "use" any part of their copyright. I also didn't say they were being selfish...those were your words.

A cake that gets eaten while 4 people see it isn't the same as a person wearing a logo all around that has been a trademark violation. apples and oranges.

it was you that said to me if you buy the pan...you have paid the royalty and there is no problem...why when I repeat that back to you it is wrong?

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Rachel5370 Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 6:28am
post #51 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeep_girl816

Ok, I know the no-nos of copyrighted images, I get the whole financial gain and even protecting the integrity of the copyrighted characters but I also own several Debby Brown books that show you how to make some of these copyrighted characters, for home use of course, so whats the deal with these? I don't think they specify that the cakes/figures need to be made excatly the way she did them, is it because the books are from the UK? I'm not trying to argue one way or the other just wondering what the deal is, if these cakes fall into the forbidden category?




Hi, I am the OP. This issue was addressed in the discussion I am referring to. Kerry Vincent said something to the effect that people who publish how-to books expect to be copied, but if we copy a design and sell or publish it we need to give credit to the designer. I will be posting some direct quotes here if it works. Ms. Vincent gave me permission- but asked me to show her what I plan to post first. Check back tomorrow! ~Rachel

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karateka Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 8:07am
post #52 of 180

Hm. Since I read this thread I went back and looked at my pics.

I was calling myself very careful about not replicating licensed images. I made someone buy Alice in Wonderland characters for me to put on the birthday cake I did...(in my pics). I created flowers, mushrooms, a teapot and cups, some mice and playing cards. A rabbit hole....or what actually looks more like a cave in the side of the cake.

I just realized that I also made white RI roses and "painted" them red with food color. I guess that one part makes it a no no. Grr...and I thought I was following rules. I am a dope.

You can't see them real well in the pic on my website. But I suppose I should take it down. And I'm irritated 'cuz I like that cake and don't wanna take it off my site! icon_cry.gif

Oh, well.

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aundrea Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 10:38am
post #53 of 180

I'm even more confuse! I hope my questions can be answered:
(Btw I don't sell cakes-just an fyi with my questions)
1) If you make a EDIBLE IMAGE, RIT or FBCT of a licensed character-that is illegal? Because you didn't pay for the character?
2) If you purchase a deco pack, wilton character cake pan or small licensed toys to pur on a cake for your kids cake that is legal?
3) If those same purchased items are on a cake you give to someone either as a gift or for profit is not legal?
4) Has anyone ever noticed if there are copy right restrictions on wilton character cake pans and deco packs? I've never paid attention?
Thanks to all who can help me to make sense of licensing.

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PattyT Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 11:11am
post #54 of 180

So...should we be pulling the pictures of character cakes down from the galleries here on CC??

I have my niece's Winnie the Pooh baby shower, and a friend's Cinderella doll cake posted.

Nothing could be easier for a copyright holder than going to the CC gallery search and typing in the name...like shooting fish in a barrel for them!

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leily Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 12:14pm
post #55 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by aundrea

I'm even more confuse! I hope my questions can be answered:
(Btw I don't sell cakes-just an fyi with my questions)
1) If you make a EDIBLE IMAGE, RIT or FBCT of a licensed character-that is illegal? Because you didn't pay for the character?



Correct, the copyright holder lost control of how their copyright is portrayed. You could not be doing it up to their standard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aundrea

2) If you purchase a deco pack, wilton character cake pan or small licensed toys to pur on a cake for your kids cake that is legal?


This is still a grey area it seems, some say Yes and some say no depending on how you read the copyright laws. But from what I have seen yes it is ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aundrea

3) If those same purchased items are on a cake you give to someone either as a gift or for profit is not legal?


The cake pan - illegal is what most would say. Purchasing the toys/cake kits yes ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aundrea

4) Has anyone ever noticed if there are copy right restrictions on wilton character cake pans and deco packs? I've never paid attention?[/quote
Thanks to all who can help me to make sense of licensing.



Character pans are for home use only, it is stamped right on them that it's for "home use only" The decopak kits ARE ok, as long as youdecorate the cake to match the picture that comes with the Kit, these have been approved by the copyright holder for this specific use.

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Writecakes Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 3:06pm
post #56 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug

Quote:
Originally Posted by Writecakes

The Disney issue really bothers me. As a writer, I deal with copyrights all the time. So many Disney "stories" are based on stories written by other authors, but rewritten and then given a new face, doll, playset, theme park, and more. I better quit there before the Disney mafia shows up at my door.



yes, stories that are in the public domain and free for all to tell and retell, which is why anyone can write their version of Cinderella, Sleep Beauty, etc.

BUT the specific IMAGERY that Disney created in their retelling IS NOT in the public domain, IS copyrighted and therefore off limits.

Consider Winnie the Pooh. Disney bought the rights to the story, but could not get the rights to the original images and had to create a whole new visual interpretation. Even they can get hemmed in by copyright.




I know that is how it plays out legally, I was just saying, from the perspective of a writer, it aggravates me. I don't want anyone creating imagery from my stories and making millions off of it and then crying foul when someone puts that image on a birthday cake for their kid.

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Writecakes Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 3:12pm
post #57 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unlimited

Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

It has everything to do with preserving the integrity of the creator's work.



Exactly thumbs_up.gif
That's why they do approve the use of sugar or plastic lay-ons for cakes... they just want to ensure that only quality and approved images are used rather than someone's poor interpretation of their characters.




Well, this I can understand. I tried to make one of those star-tipped cakes of Abby Cadabby for my niece. Her eyes looked crooked and she ended up looking a bit "tipsy" - like she had one to many. I brought it anyway and kept saying "C'mon, time to cut the cake. Let's cut the cake! Cake anyone?" I couldn't wait to see it gone! LOL

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Writecakes Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 3:21pm
post #58 of 180

I'm Mom to five kids ages 5-18. We have had many Disney parties and cakes. I remember my daughter was really into the Disney Princesses. We would have a Disney Princess Party. She would be showered with gifts of Disney Barbies, Disney Porcelain Dolls, Disney Accessories. My son was way into Toy Story. He would be given gifts of Woody & Buzz action figures, accessories, bedding, movies and more. My other daughter was into Hannah Montana, iCarly and those shows. She's been given gifts that match that line of products.

And thank God, for each party, each birthday, we bought a licensed birthday cake for each child. Otherwise, Disney would have been bankrupt. The toys, accessories, napkins, plates, movies - it would have never been enough.

I know it's the law and I understand it.
But I'm cranky, okay?

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tannersmom Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 3:52pm
post #59 of 180

I have a couple cakes posted that I made for family and friends and didn't charge them anything for the cakes (that was my gift to b'day person). Now I'm afraid I'll get into trouble. I tried to delete the pics but it says that I'm unable to delete because they have been saved under some's fav. How can I remove these pics?

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cakeprof Posted 27 Jul 2010 , 3:58pm
post #60 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by lauriekailee


if you buy the pan, and use it 30 times, they get no more royalties than if you use it once! so that doesn't quite make their argument. i completely get what you are saying, i just think to go after a mother at home not bothering anyone is being petty when there are so many others that are violating the same thing and not being looked at.

THAT IS ALL I AM TRYING TO SAY.




No need to shout, I know what you are trying to say. However this other way of looking at it, does not address the question at hand. When you buy the character pan you acquire a license to use it at home--there are no limits on how many times you can use it. The royalties are based on the sale of the pan not how many times you use it. You can buy the pan and never use it or use it 100 times for your children. The fact that a person makes 100 Elmo cakes (from a purchased character pan) for their child is irrelevant as the license is not a one time license. Let me make this as clear as possible: How many times someone uses a legal license does not justify another person violating copyright once. You can buy a Disney video and watch it 100 times, you cannot go to your neighbor copy their DvD and watch it once.

I am sorry but your other people are doing it too or more egregiously is just not compelling. I am not sure what the point is, little violations of the law are okay? Sure is it harsh to go after the mother (why this has where this thread has gone I am not sure) but they are as guilty as a business that is using character pans to sell cakes in terms of infringing on copyright. The fact that it is not as bad is irrelevant. Someone driving 66 mph is as guilty of speeding (speed limit 65) as some driving 100 mph. The penalties for the latter will be more severe (as it would be for the business selling unlicensed character cakes) but they where both speeding. The fact that others are going faster do not justify someone going just a little above the speed limit.

You seem to want to hold on to an idea that it is okay to not have to pay someone for their intellectual work. And frankly you have not offered a compelling reason why this should be the case. The only reason you seem to have is they should not have to pay. Why? It is irrelevant that marketing drives children to want a character cake--like every other product you have to pay--you have not offered a reason why a cake should be different. It is irrelevant what other people are doing--what they are doing does not justify a person infringing on copyright. And it is irrelevant how many times a character pan is used legally as the license entitles them to do so. Someone using a character pan 100 times legally does not justify a person making a character cake 1 time when it infringes on copyright. I see your perspective, however, it does not address why copyrights exist, how they function, why they matter, and why parents should be bound to them when making a cake for their child.

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