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Why do papers come off - Page 2

post #16 of 58
Okay, now I am really stumped. But I have come up with an idea that might help each other.

Let's start from the beginning.
1. What is the recipe?
2. What temp oven?
3. How do you prepare the recipe?
4. How do you prepare the pan?
5. How long do you bake them?
6. More than one pan in the oven at a time?
7. How long do they cool before you take them out of the pan?
8. Do you cool them on a rack after you take them out of the pan?
9. How do you store them?
10. How long after they are baked do they separate?
11. Regular or convection oven?
12. Brand of oven and oven interior width - 24", 27" or 30". (This might make a difference also).

Well that should be enough questions!
If one of you would like to post the recipe you used, I would be willing to duplicate it here as long as it is not a doctored cake mix. I have had no experience with them and it would not be a good test for me to learn how to do that and see if the wrappers stay on at the same time. There would be too much room for error. I'll make it exactly as you did with my pans and my oven and we will see if I get the same results. I won't be able to start baking til Sunday afternoon at the latest. My son is getting married tomorrow, so I'll be a bit busy til then. icon_wink.gif

This question has come up so many times and we never seem to find the answer. It's about time we did some testing and see what we can find. Otherwise we are all going to go crazy trying to come up with a solution. (okay, just joking, but it sure is frustrating isn't it?)
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post #17 of 58
I use different quality of papers and the ONLY time this has happened to me is when I take them out of the tins too early. I now let them completely cool in the pan and have never had separation again.
Debbie - US Army (Retired) --aka "The Cake Sarge"

Good Cake Ain't Cheap! Cheap Cake Ain't Good!
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Debbie - US Army (Retired) --aka "The Cake Sarge"

Good Cake Ain't Cheap! Cheap Cake Ain't Good!
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post #18 of 58
The only time I've had this problem is when I used a batter that had quite a bit of fat in it - cream cheese, mayo, etc. I've always been told that if you have a high volume of fat in the recipe the papers won't stick. I've found that to be the case with mine.
"Mmmmmmmmm donuts." - Homer Simpson
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"Mmmmmmmmm donuts." - Homer Simpson
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post #19 of 58
I recently made 3 different kinds of cupcakes...s'mores, red velvet with cream cheese filling, and WASC. All were made the same day, same oven, same temp, same liners, same conditions. All held their wrappers EXCEPT..the red velvet. I thought maybe the filling and the richness of batter caused it to happen, which would support one of the last posts made here.
Lynda
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"...Thomas Jefferson
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Lynda
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"...Thomas Jefferson
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post #20 of 58
The only time it's happened to me is in the summer. I make a lot of cupcakes - different recipes, different wrappers, most of the time frozen, but sometimes not.

I take the cupcakes out of the tins after a couple of minutes and let them cool completely.

I generally store cupcakes in the freezer, in a plastic container that is about 95% airtight with no problems.

This past batch was the only time the papers have come away. The temps were hovering around 100F and my A/C was begging for mercy. I took some cupcakes out of the freezer and stored some freshly made cupcakes in the same type of container. The next day papers had come away from both batches. Thankfully, only about 5 out of 135.

I just remembered that I stored a few in a Tupperware container with the lid just laying on the top - not sealed. None of the papers loosened in that batch.
post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by LindaF144

Okay, now I am really stumped. But I have come up with an idea that might help each other.

Let's start from the beginning.
1. What is the recipe?
mine was marble cake (from scratch)
2. What temp oven?
350
3. How do you prepare the recipe?
the yellow cake is a cake bible recipe so mixed butter with all dry ingredients and then add eggs in three batches
4. How do you prepare the pan?
reynolds white cupcake liners
5. How long do you bake them?
20 minutes I think
6. More than one pan in the oven at a time?
Yep, two 12 cup tins
7. How long do they cool before you take them out of the pan?
I let them cool complete before removing from the pan
8. Do you cool them on a rack after you take them out of the pan?
they were cool when removed from the pan
9. How do you store them?
they went directly into a cake box, but wrappers were already peeling as soon as I took them out of the pan
10. How long after they are baked do they separate?
as soon as i took them out of the pan
11. Regular or convection oven?
regular
12. Brand of oven and oven interior width - 24", 27" or 30". (This might make a difference also).
GE oven, 24 inches

Well that should be enough questions!
If one of you would like to post the recipe you used, I would be willing to duplicate it here as long as it is not a doctored cake mix. I have had no experience with them and it would not be a good test for me to learn how to do that and see if the wrappers stay on at the same time. There would be too much room for error. I'll make it exactly as you did with my pans and my oven and we will see if I get the same results. I won't be able to start baking til Sunday afternoon at the latest. My son is getting married tomorrow, so I'll be a bit busy til then. icon_wink.gif

I used the cake bible downy yellow cake recipe and then separated about half of it out (I didn't measure) and added 1/3 c up of cocoa powder that had been dissolved in a 1/2 cup boiling water

This question has come up so many times and we never seem to find the answer. It's about time we did some testing and see what we can find. Otherwise we are all going to go crazy trying to come up with a solution. (okay, just joking, but it sure is frustrating isn't it?)
post #22 of 58
My experience with the "expensive" ones that Hobby Lobby carries (and some other places) is that they come away from the cupcake just like the others. They're nice and thick so you don't need a pan but IMO not worth the extra money.

I fully believe it is a moisture problem - it's sad that trying to keep cupcakes from drying out is a major culprit in causing the wrappers to come off. Every time I put my cupcakes in a storage container the wrappers come off, the ones I leave on the counter (extras or "flops") don't have the problem.
Kathy W
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Kathy W
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post #23 of 58
After reading all the suggestions, I think I have it figured out. (The following is written in the new "sarcasm font".) The wrappes come off because:
too much or too little moisture in the recipe;
too much or too little fat in the recipe;
refrigerating/freezing the cupcakes, or leaving at room temperature;
putting cupcakes in airtight containers, or leaving them uncovered;
filling cupcakes of leaving unfilled;
baking temperature too high or too low;
crowded oven, or not;
removing from pan too soon or too late;
hot kitchen/cold kitchen;
humid weather/dry weather;
baking in month with "R'" in it; and
baking during full moon............. I think that about covers it.
Honestly, I think it's a crap-shoot.
post #24 of 58
cutthecake - You got that right!

confectionsofahousewife - Thanks for the details. I hope others join in as well. I believe I have that recipe. I'll give it a try this week. Great idea on the marbling thing. What kind of pan did you use, shiny but dull, or totally dark?

KathyTW - I humbly disagree. I don't believe moisture is all that causes it. I have made cupcakes where I inadvertently put in twice the amount of liquid. Boy were they moist! But not one cupcake liner peeled. But I'll gladly try that experiment again too because those cupcakes were delicious even three days later. icon_biggrin.gif
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post #25 of 58
Linda- I had never made marble cake before so I posted here about the best way to do it. I thought I had to make a recipe of my chocolate batter and a recipe of my yellow but Doug told me just to make the yellow and separate some out and add the cocoa powder. I read online that it works well to dissolve it in some boiling water first and it seemed to me that it would mix in better that way. It was odd really, I had never made a marble cake and in one week I had someone wanting marble cupcakes and someone wanting a marble birthday cake! Go figure. I'm going to do some more research before I do it again though. The cake tasted fine but the cupcakes looked a little weird and I had to trim a lot off the top of my 9x13 cakes because the chocolate and yellow cake rose to different levels so the top was bumpy (for lack of a better word). So maybe I should have added some baking soda to the chocolate portion in addition to adding the cocoa? Too acidic maybe? I don't know.
Cupcake pans are both wilton. One is old and one is new. The old one is darker and more matte (not super dark though) and the newer one is lighter and shinier.
post #26 of 58
The Duncan Hines Marble Cake mix used to be sold as basically a yellow cake mix with a packet of cocoa powder, which was added to some of the batter. I don't know if they still sell it that way, as I haven't bought one lately.
post #27 of 58
linda....I don't think it's the moisture of the cake at all - I think it's the exterior moisture, be it humidity or putting it in a airtight container. Paper absorbs moisture and expands, and when a cupcake liner expands it's going to lose the shape that it has been "Pressed" into.
Kathy W
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Kathy W
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post #28 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyTW

linda....I don't think it's the moisture of the cake at all - I think it's the exterior moisture, be it humidity or putting it in a airtight container. Paper absorbs moisture and expands, and when a cupcake liner expands it's going to lose the shape that it has been "Pressed" into.

Ah, I see. Sorry I misunderstood. Gotta love that written word. icon_wink.gif

But when I had it happen, my cuppies were sitting on the rack on my kitchen table and not covered and not a humid day either. I do put my cuppies into a tupperware type container, and those have never peeled away.

I guess that puts back at cutthecakes explanation, huh! icon_wink.gif
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post #29 of 58
Thread Starter 
Let's start from the beginning.
1. What is the recipe?
WBH WHITE CAKE/I ALWAYS BAKE SCRATCH
2. What temp oven?
350
3. How do you prepare the recipe?
CRAM BUTTER/SUGAR/ WHIPPED EGG WHITES FOLDED IN
4. How do you prepare the pan?
PAPERS ONLY
5. How long do you bake them?
15-20MIN ??
6. More than one pan in the oven at a time?
3-4 ON DIFFERENT RACKS
7. How long do they cool before you take them out of the pan?
I TAKE THEM OUT RIGHT AWAY
8. Do you cool them on a rack after you take them out of the pan?
YES
9. How do you store them?
CAKE BOX
10. How long after they are baked do they separate?
OVERNIGHT
11. Regular or convection oven?
CONVECTION
12. Brand of oven and oven interior width - 24", 27" or 30". (This might make a difference also).
KENMORE ELITE
post #30 of 58
I have the same issue but it is mostly with minis
1. What is the recipe?
I tried white cake from scratch from the Cake bible and box Duncan Hines WASC
2. What temp oven?
350 - also tried 375
3. How do you prepare the recipe?
for Cake bible recipe, mix dry add butter etc.
For Wasc just mix everything together.
4. How do you prepare the pan?
PAPERS ONLY
5. How long do you bake them?
15-20MIN
6. More than one pan in the oven at a time?
2
7. How long do they cool before you take them out of the pan?
I tried cooling completely in the pan and also taking them out after 5 minutes
8. Do you cool them on a rack after you take them out of the pan?
yes
9. How do you store them?
plasticwrap
10. How long after they are baked do they separate?
sometimes as quickly as 10 minutes - the box cake mix worked much better. It had only a couple that separted.
11. Regular or convection oven?
regular
12. Brand of oven and oven interior width - 24", 27" or 30". (This might make a difference also).
GE 30"
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