Been Fined?

Business By cakelady99 Updated 9 May 2010 , 8:25pm by Carolynlovescake

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PTBUGZY1 Posted 7 May 2010 , 2:10pm
post #61 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCC

I'm not sure why you are demanding examples. Those that have been caught may not feel comfortable sharing their stories. Since you want examples, I'll give you one. An aunt of one of my friend's was caught selling wedding cakes from her home. She had a very lucrative home cake business. Somone turned her in to the Department of Agriculture. She was fined (don't recall the amount) and is prohibited from ever opening her own cake business. The Dept. of Ag will not grant her a license. Due to her disregarding the law, she robbed herself of the opportunity of opening a legitimate business down the road. She now works for a local bakery.

Bottom line is it doesn't matter if someone has a story to share or not. The law is the law. No matter how you spin it, someone doesn't have to provide proof that the law is enforced to know what is legal and illegal. Your posts give the impression that you are searching for someone to give you the green light to operate a business without a license. If you choose to ignore the law and are willing to take a chance of getting caught, that is your prerogative. Providing you with examples and proof really serves no purpose.


well put MCC,

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cheatize Posted 7 May 2010 , 2:33pm
post #62 of 80

Not much of the story is left in my memory banks, but does anyone remember the lady baking some kind of apple cake to get money for her family? It was in the newspaper and posts on here were made about it. If you check that out, that would be a specific example for you.

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joyfullysweet Posted 7 May 2010 , 3:02pm
post #63 of 80

I understand that as soon as you collect money, it's considered a business. What I don't understand is why it's perfectly legal to give away cakes. Can't you get just as sick eating a free cake as you can one you paid for? lol It seems to me these illegal businesses should be more of an IRS issue, not HD! I guess it is what is is!

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cakelady99 Posted 7 May 2010 , 5:22pm
post #64 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by PTBUGZY1

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCC

I'm not sure why you are demanding examples. Those that have been caught may not feel comfortable sharing their stories. Since you want examples, I'll give you one. An aunt of one of my friend's was caught selling wedding cakes from her home. She had a very lucrative home cake business. Somone turned her in to the Department of Agriculture. She was fined (don't recall the amount) and is prohibited from ever opening her own cake business. The Dept. of Ag will not grant her a license. Due to her disregarding the law, she robbed herself of the opportunity of opening a legitimate business down the road. She now works for a local bakery.

Bottom line is it doesn't matter if someone has a story to share or not. The law is the law. No matter how you spin it, someone doesn't have to provide proof that the law is enforced to know what is legal and illegal. Your posts give the impression that you are searching for someone to give you the green light to operate a business without a license. If you choose to ignore the law and are willing to take a chance of getting caught, that is your prerogative. Providing you with examples and proof really serves no purpose.

well put MCC,




First off, I'm not demanding anything. I am politely asking. Obviously no one is required to share anything. Furthermore, I'm not seeking proof or green lights or any kind validation. While it may not serve your purpose to hear examples, it serves mine, and that's why I started the thread.

I do not sell cakes or any other food and have no interest in ignoring any laws. I don't recommend or encourage anyone else to do it either. As I have indicated on multiple occasions I am curious what others experiences are given the way that this issue seems to have such a mystery (and hostility) behind it. I think that I'm probably not the only one interested in separating the facts from myth. The few examples provided have been someone running a business, and that gives me some insight, so thanks. Again, please continue to contact me via PM with your situation if you prefer not to share publicly.

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ctinaw Posted 7 May 2010 , 6:49pm
post #65 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by pattycakesnj

My local paper prints health notices every week. I am always checking before heading out for Saturday night dinner.




What section of the paper would these be in? Sounds like entertaining reading icon_biggrin.gif

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ctinaw Posted 7 May 2010 , 7:06pm
post #66 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by joyfullysweet

I understand that as soon as you collect money, it's considered a business. What I don't understand is why it's perfectly legal to give away cakes. Can't you get just as sick eating a free cake as you can one you paid for? lol It seems to me these illegal businesses should be more of an IRS issue, not HD! I guess it is what is is!




You're absolutely right. It has about 100x more to do with tax money than anything else. This is the government we're talking about.

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ctinaw Posted 7 May 2010 , 7:16pm
post #67 of 80

This post made me curious so I just called up our Department of Inspections and Appeals here in Iowa. The woman on the phone told me that I don't need any license to sell from a home bakery *UNLESS* I plan on using cream cheese (or any other "hazardous" items that may need refridgeration) or unless I intend on selling to other stores for resale - neither of which I really planned on doing anyway. So yay!

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costumeczar Posted 7 May 2010 , 7:24pm
post #68 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctinaw

Quote:
Originally Posted by pattycakesnj

My local paper prints health notices every week. I am always checking before heading out for Saturday night dinner.



What section of the paper would these be in? Sounds like entertaining reading icon_biggrin.gif




They have it up on their website here, also there's a report on the news on Thursdays that lists the most egregious violations the inspectors found. We love it!

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rosiecast Posted 7 May 2010 , 7:24pm
post #69 of 80

Ctinaw, Yeah, be careful with that Cream Cheese frosting- it is pretty hazardous. Especially to my thighs. LOL

Sometimes you gotta love how people say things. And I'm guessing you were quoting the lady at the Dept of inspections.

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ctinaw Posted 7 May 2010 , 7:37pm
post #70 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosiecast

Ctinaw, Yeah, be careful with that Cream Cheese frosting- it is pretty hazardous. Especially to my thighs. LOL

Sometimes you gotta love how people say things. And I'm guessing you were quoting the lady at the Dept of inspections.




LOL - yes she used the exact term "hazardous materials" - and I was like.. ummmmm... well my cakes don't contain plutonium or anything - or what did you mean? Luckily - she laughed and explained. Apparently she just meant anything that could spoil like within several hours without refridgeration.

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ctinaw Posted 7 May 2010 , 7:42pm
post #71 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by costumeczar

Quote:
Originally Posted by ctinaw

Quote:
Originally Posted by pattycakesnj

My local paper prints health notices every week. I am always checking before heading out for Saturday night dinner.



What section of the paper would these be in? Sounds like entertaining reading icon_biggrin.gif



They have it up on their website here, also there's a report on the news on Thursdays that lists the most egregious violations the inspectors found. We love it!




This sounds ALMOST as entertaining as reading the police reports form my hometown (had a population of around 1500). Things like -
"cow reported missing, located 1 mile away on highway";
"resident at 000 whatever street called to report a suspicious persons loitering near of their home, patrol investigated and found three minors playing card game: pokemon";
"dog at large";
sadly - these are actual stories I remember reading. Some made it all the way to Jay Leno. Another good one was when a lady called the police to help get her cat's head out of a peanut butter jar. Yeah - pretty much every night was a slow night for the police of Ackley, Iowa.

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cakemom42 Posted 7 May 2010 , 11:34pm
post #72 of 80

Thanks for the laughs ya'll are funny :0)
I grew up in small town NY USA & pop was 1500 with the cows!!
Enjoyed this thanks needed to laugh after long day of cakes :0)

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tesso Posted 8 May 2010 , 12:20am
post #73 of 80

opps.. so much for that edit. I erased everything.

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rosiecast Posted 9 May 2010 , 2:26am
post #74 of 80

ctinaw- That's hilarious. The pokemon one made me LOL- those little delinquents. LOL

And the cat's head in the jar- hahahahaha

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happigolucki35 Posted 9 May 2010 , 3:02pm
post #75 of 80

The whole inspection thing in my state is a joke. I bake part time and do inspections of a different type of business for my full time job. When I got my home kitchen inspected, she basically looked in my fridge and pantry and explained the rules of selling self serve items and that was it. I had sanitizer and gloves and everything, she never even asked to see any of it. I say this because I have noticed in some photos, the background of the pictures are so cluttered with junk that I would never want to eat anything from these homes. In my state just because you have been inspected does not mean your home is clean.

Also, I think there are a lot of illegal bakers on this site who of course will not admit it. If you have to say "I bake just for hobby or I don't sell cakes" hmmm.

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cheatize Posted 9 May 2010 , 6:12pm
post #76 of 80

Gee, I thought posters said that so much because they didn't want to get into the whole legality arguement yet again.

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Elcee Posted 9 May 2010 , 7:18pm
post #77 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheatize

Gee, I thought posters said that so much because they didn't want to get into the whole legality arguement yet again.




I say it because it's true icon_biggrin.gif . I am a hobby baker...I have never taken money for a cake. I have not been reimbursed for ingredients, I have not been give a "thank you" gift card. I also say it here in the forums as a sort of disclaimer...as in here is my opinion but since I don't sell cakes I'm most likely wrong. icon_smile.gif

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Spuddysmom Posted 9 May 2010 , 7:45pm
post #78 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elcee

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheatize

Gee, I thought posters said that so much because they didn't want to get into the whole legality arguement yet again.



I say it because it's true icon_biggrin.gif . I am a hobby baker...I have never taken money for a cake. I have not been reimbursed for ingredients, I have not been give a "thank you" gift card. I also say it here in the forums as a sort of disclaimer...as in here is my opinion but since I don't sell cakes I'm most likely wrong. icon_smile.gif




Me, too.

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Carolynlovescake Posted 9 May 2010 , 7:54pm
post #79 of 80

In July of 2007 I left my full time job to be a stay at home mom with my newborn daughter. I was looking into the legality of starting a cake business from home.

I hadn't had time to bake for pleasure in at least 8 years so I was enjoying my free time at home. I baked for the guy across the street, I baked for the guy next door, I baked for the 3 year old next door, and I baked for the elderly couple across the street and 2 doors down. - Those were the 4 houses on the street who were awesome neighbors and I repaid them. In return Greg would invite us over to BBQ, John would call me and say "I'm buying Chinese for dinner, ya'll want to come over. Carlyn would say "we are having a sprinkler party in front in 30 minutes bring the kids, I have the popcicles!" and the elderly couple well.. they have lived on this street for over 50 years, they pay us all back in friendship.

I also baked for friends. I would take out stacked cakes and deliver. She would stand and watch through her window.

I had a neighbor who was beyond vindictive and jut all out evil. She called the health department on me. She was never invited to any house for anything because she caused trouble. She saw us going to this house, that house coming over etc. and knew she was being excluded.

In September of 2007 I was approached to become a Wilton Instructor so I started practicing my skills after a long break from being a bakery owner so I would feel comfortable teaching it. Cakes were always going out of my house.

Well October of 2007 the Health Inspector ringeth my doorbell and asked to come in to talk with me and do an home inspection based on an anonymous complaint. I had nothing to hide so I asked him in and gave him a can of soda.

He sat down with me and explained the complaint. Instantly I knew who it was from. Wording and details were exact to her way of speech.

Instead of getting angry and flipping out on him I laughed and said here let me show you what I'm up to. I showed him my baking closet that easily had 50 box mixes and three times that in bags of powdered sugar. I then grabbed the binder sent to all new instructors and stated that I was going to be an instructor starting on X date. I told him the mixes were for cakes I had to take and showed him exactly how many I could potentially be taking to a lesson and my schedule for teaching. He offered some suggestions on how best to store all of it to keep rodents from finding it/getting into it. I showed him the receipt of the items in transit for storage and he was stunned I was so on my game. When I explained to him that I had owned a bakery he asked for the info and in front of me called the state it was in to get records on it... and we came back with a perfect record. At that point he said "I just have a few things I have to ask of you for protocol and hate to waste your time with this but I have to..."

He asked permission to open my closets and cabinets to be sure I wasn't hiding anything proving I was an illegal business. He opened each and glanced in it, nothing in depth, no going through boxes etc. and gave me a copy of his inspection stating "false complaint, no illegal bakery on premises.".

He gave me his card and told me if I ever wanted to go legal he'd help me out with minimal costs.

I did ask him what would happen if I got more "anonymous" complaints and he looked at me weird. I told him about the neighbor and stated "she is pretty much black balled from the neighbors and she lashes out at any of us for what ever reason she can justify. My bet is this call came from her and it won't be the last." He said any complaint would have to be followed up on in person so he could be back. I walked him out and she came running out of her house "is she in trouble are you going to arrest her? Did you fine her!"... nice self admission there. He looks at me and I quietly say "I told you so...". When he got back to the office he talked with his supervisor about it and they agreed that any anonymous complaints against me wouldn't be allowed. They would have to give a valid name and a valid phone number (no pay phone numbers). She tried calling a few more times with "She took an order from me and my name is Jane..... uh... Smith". She was dumb enough to always give her cell phone number with a different name.

He did tell me though that by law he had to warn me there would be a fine if I was indeed running an unlicensed food business. It was just kind of tossed out there with no threat, just as in "I hate to even have to say this but if it does turn out you are... and it's just a formality that I have to tell you."

I've seen him in my store when doing demos. I have my sign up "Samples can not be given due to being baked in an unlicensed environment per the health departmnt." He even saw me before I saw him and sent his wife to test me. She was pushy and I pushed right back and then she called to him... she won't break!" He stepped out from where he was hiding and we laughed.

She moved last June across town. As soon as she left the anonymous complaints against my illegal cake business also stopped. Odd coincidence... LOL

So there is MY story.

In my next post I'll share my friends story.

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Carolynlovescake Posted 9 May 2010 , 8:25pm
post #80 of 80

The reason I am posting this is because part of her settlement was that it would not be discussed publicly. I've shared it before so I'm going to give you the brief version.

When my 4 friends and I decided to open a bakery we offered her to be a part of it with 1/6th of the ownership. She declined saying we were dumb to do joint ownership of a business. She wanted 100% of profits and be on her own and her own boss.

We lived in a state where working out of your home was illegal, and still is.

Well a few years went by, our business was doing great and she had a enough work to keep her busy and profitable. She was doing it under the table, not claiming taxes and not licensed with city/county/state for licensing nor was she HD approved.

Well her fridge was going out and she didn't know it. She baked with spoiled products. Milk, eggs, sour cream, cream cheese, mayo and a couple other things she used in either her cake or frosting were in there.

Wedding reception came and went and guests were sick enough to seek treatment at the ER.

What most people don't know... any food poisoning treated at hospitals are reported to the health department. The HD saw the trend and immediately went after the two obvious culprits... caterer and cake decorator.

The caterer was cleared and so they went to visit her. They showed up and she was rude and refused to cooperate with them. They found a dead fridge in the garage and ice coolers stacked in the kitchen were the fridge should be. At that point she knew she was screwed and scared.

A few weeks after that she got notice from the IRS she was being investigated for unpaid taxes on an unregistered business. They were not nice. They went to small independent run bakeries in town and got their estimated annual earnings and averaged them to be what they assumed she was making. Why? She didn't keep records and if she did they were no longer "available" when she was contacted by them. - Side note. The IRS dude she was forced to work with told her it would have been much less owed if she had kept her records to prove what she made but since she was trying to hide it they played by the book and went with the higher estimations because they had no base to go off of with her. We are talking 7 years worth of back taxes... tens of thousands of dollars and that is just to the IRS.

In the end:

She was sued individually by each person she made sick. She lost each case. She had to pay their legal fees, a settlement plus 100% of the hospital bill for each.

She had to pay retro for licensing fees for the years she was "in business" and fines for operating an unlicensed business with the city/county and state.

She had to pay serious health department fines.

Her debt was so extensive from this and none of it could be bankrupted (she tried!) that it cracked an already troubled marriage.

It's easily been 15 years and I would not be surprised if she was still having garnishments taken from her check for it.

She was also banned from ever operating a food related business legally in the state, and said if she ever moved to a state in the US that allows it she would probably be banned from that as well due to the severity of the situation.

No bakery in town would hire her. Who would want an employee with that kind of record working for them?

She has a full time job now in an office setting. Even after all these years when it's time for a pot luck if she brings something in it sits untouched if it's home made. Needless to say, her reputation is shot all these years later. When asked to bring something to the pot luck she brings soda and chips, or the paper products for it.

She has never told us what the final total was on all the fines, settlements etc were and we didn't ask, it wasn't our business to know. It would not surprise me if it was well over $1 million.

Is this situation an extreme one... yes. Is it rare... yes. It happens though and it doesn't always make the headline news.

She's a lovely gal, and has moved on but the severity of what she did is something you never get over.

I've had other friends busted but it was because of business cards, advertising etc and they walked away with barely a hand slap in the same state. The difference is, one made many people sick while the others hadn't.

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