How To Handle This Question Correctly...
Business By cakemeasIam Updated 14 Nov 2009 , 1:51am by CakestyleIN
dang...this thread is still going?? LOL!
cake mixes smell funny...scratch doesn't.
Honestly, this is an ignorant statement.
Perhaps the cake mixes that you make smell that way.
Peeps, if that ain't prejudice ~ tell me what is.
I can make a scratch cake using the same ingredients that are in a cake mix. I can measure out the flour, sugar, butter, flavoring and the cake emulsion and make in essence a 'cake mix' cake by using the scratch method.
dang...this thread is still going?? LOL!
cake mixes smell funny...scratch doesn't.
Thank you!
So if there are no more legitimate debating points we resort to prejudice?
The ones that exhort us to follow the 10 Commandments dissolve in a puddle of funny cake smells?
edited for typos
I do get brides who ask me at a tasting whether or not I bake from scratch. My answer: "RV, carrot, and pound cakes are all scratch; vanilla, almond, marble, and yellow are all dr'd mixes; chocolate is an undoctored mix." They say, "Oh ok, give me one tier in almond, one tier in lemon pound, and one tier in chocoalte." They don't care. If they do, they can go down the street to someone else because I'm not changing my recipes for one customer.
And that right there is, I believe, the answer and attitude that needs to be adopted by everyone. Tell the truth, plain and simple, be proud of your product, and quit worrying (and arguing!!) about it.
::curls lip like Elvis:: Thank you...thank you very much.
Well kids, I asked a consumer rights attorney...more to come...
Here's the question I posed:
We have a debate going. Would a bride have a legitimate cause to sue a baker if in answer to the question, "Do you bake from scratch?" the baker responds, "I use pre-measured ingredients."
Then the baker used cake mix as an ingredient among other things, sour cream, more flour and sugar, etc. to bake the wedding cake? Would using that euphemism be breaking consumer law? Thanks!
They asked:
What state are you located in?
I answered:
Tennessee--and the idea here is where does the idea of "trade secret" come in --if the full list of ingredients used is provided to the client. Thanks
To be continued...
So I hope you think that the question to the online lawyer person was asked clearly not leaning to either side.
I CAN NOT believe that some of you are saying if someone asks you if you start with a boxed mix or not is not a question a client has a right to ask. If I'm about to spend $500 on a cake, I can ask what I want. If you don't want to asnwer, well I guess we ain't ment to work with each other. I'm not asking for your recipe or your entire caking procedure. And no, I don't know how my bread is made, but like Dkelly said, I will when my bread cost $500. I can't believe you say it's bad marketing to be honest. And once again, if someone asks me did I use store bought marshmallows in my MMF, I'll say yes. I guess thats a bad marketing move, but I'll go ahead and take my chances. And wow, cause someone says they think mixed cake smells funny, they have a prejudice?! Oh, and they get called ignorant! WOW! How ignorant is that? LOL! I thought that was their opionion on how something smelled. Let me not say I HATE the taste of shortening in frosting, cause I'll be labeled prejudice too. And some of these finer points like baking powder is a chemical... 
So the debate continues...thank goodness it's not causing me to need to be on psycho meds!
Would the statement about cake mixes smelling funny be ok if it were phrased like this? "From my experience with cake mixes, I have concluded that they smell funny. To me."
Cuz that's my opinion, based on my personal experience.
According to K8, I hold a prejudice against cake mixes? Or is it ok, since it's phrased that way and I take personal ownership of it, and the statement is no longer a generality?
I CAN NOT believe that some of you are saying if someone asks you if you start with a boxed mix or not is not a question a client has a right to ask.
Who said that?
They can ask anything they want for crying out loud.
And
I have the same right to answer any way I want too, free country.
First amendment thing again.
By the way if I ask KFC is there chicken and flour used, they say yes. The spices they don't let you know. Cocacola has a list of ingredients on the can. Just not how they formulate those ingredients together. Why? Cause it's the law to disclose certain things. And I APPLUAD all the GREAT mix bakers on here for doing it & doing it well with pride. Obviously being honest hasn't hurt them a bit, cause they make a great product they can back up! Maybe that's what the problem is. Some mix bakers can't do that right either. "Doesth thou protesteth too loudly"?
I brought that up because of many on here that say the "prejudice" is in the own minds of the bakers who use a mix.......just making a point of how that may possibly come about.
AND again, if someone were to EVER ask, I would tell them....(and for the record, it can be worded several ways.....the "Do you bake from SCRATCH?" is the wording we are asking about, I doubt seriously if the wording would be "Do you bake with a mix?" (because that is what the magazine article TELLS them to ask......) not because they really want to know. ***see post by indydebi***
By the way if I ask KFC is there chicken and flour used, they say yes. The spices they don't let you know. Cocacola has a list of ingredients on the can. Just not how they formulate those ingredients together. Why? Cause it's the law to disclose certain things. And I APPLUAD all the GREAT mix bakers on here for doing it & doing it well with pride. Obviously being honest hasn't hurt them a bit, cause they make a great product they can back up! Maybe that's what the problem is. Some mix bakers can't do that right either. "Doesth thou protesteth too loudly"?
Scratch and mix are not ingredients--they are methods.
We are all stating that we give ingredient lists.
Carry on...
I CAN NOT believe that some of you are saying if someone asks you if you start with a boxed mix or not is not a question a client has a right to ask.
Who said that?
They can ask anything they want for crying out loud.
And
I have the same right to answer any way I want too, free country.
First amendment thing again.
Are you kidding me K8? How many times has it been said on here that it isn't a clients business to know what you use? So I didn't phrase it word for word, but that's what it comes down to. And please quit with your far out reaching points. This is NOT a first amendment issue. Which by the way your only okay when it you using the first amedment. You could have said Daily was using her first amendment when she said mixes smell funny. You called her ignorant. Everything you have said is outlandish & far reaching to make a point. Give me a break!
By the way if I ask KFC is there chicken and flour used, they say yes. The spices they don't let you know. Cocacola has a list of ingredients on the can. Just not how they formulate those ingredients together. Why? Cause it's the law to disclose certain things. And I APPLUAD all the GREAT mix bakers on here for doing it & doing it well with pride. Obviously being honest hasn't hurt them a bit, cause they make a great product they can back up! Maybe that's what the problem is. Some mix bakers can't do that right either. "Doesth thou protesteth too loudly"?
Scratch and mix are not ingredients--they are methods.
We are all stating that we give ingredient lists.
Carry on...
I CAN NOT believe that some of you are saying if someone asks you if you start with a boxed mix or not is not a question a client has a right to ask.
Who said that?
They can ask anything they want for crying out loud.
And
I have the same right to answer any way I want too, free country.
First amendment thing again.
Are you kidding me K8? How many times has it been said on here that it isn't a clients business to know what you use? So I didn't phrase it word for word, but that's what it comes down to. And please quit with your far out reaching points. This is NOT a first amendment issue. Which by the way your only okay when it you using the first amedment. You could have said Daily was using her first amendment when she said mixes smell funny. You called her ignorant. Everything you have said is outlandish & far reaching to make a point. Give me a break!
I said the statement was ignorant--don't put words in my mouth.
Re-read the thread ~~I've stated that about providing ingredients over & over.
Merriam Webster
; also : lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified
Doncha wanna know what the lawyer said???
Hi, my name is AverageMom, and I use box mixes. I've never like scratch cakes. My friends request box mixes. My other friend makes lovely scratch cakes. I'm pretty sure neither of us is going straight to hell in a handbasket because of our caking preferences.
Hi, my name is AverageMom, and I use box mixes. I've never like scratch cakes. My friends request box mixes. My other friend makes lovely scratch cakes. I'm pretty sure neither of us is going straight to hell in a handbasket because of our caking preferences.
Exactly.
Well, as someone just opening my business, I haven't been asked this question yet. I do use some doctored mixes. If I was asked whether I bake a particular cake from a mix, or scratch, and the cake in question was a doctored mix, I would feel the need to say more than just yes or no. Before I started really baking and decorating cakes, I had no idea that you could actually use a cake mix, and add ingredients to it other than the way the directions on the box suggest---and I don't think most occaisional home bakers know that either. When I first started using CC, I had no idea what a WASC recipe was. So, if the customer was interested enough to ask the question, then I would want them to be informed of the entire process. I wouldn't just hand over the complete recipe, but I would want them to know it wasn't just the box mix alone. I do supply complete ingredient lists for all my products, for those who want information on allergens and preservatives. It's required for certain types of sales by law where I am, but I always provide it anyway, to cover my a$$. 
Edited 1 time for spelling.
The concept of a trade secret would come into play if the baker refused to provide the information on the basis that they have value in their unique recipe. The scenario you propose is different. In that scenario the issue depends on the meaning of "scratch." The Tennessee Consumer Protection Act, TCA Section 47-18- 104, lists unfair or deceptive acts which are prohibited. This section of the law contains a provision that states:
"Engaging in any other act or practice which is deceptive to the consumer or to any other person;"
This catch-all provision could be applicable to your proposed situation. The issue will be the parties understanding of the term "scratch." If this involved a written contract, the term would likely be defined in that agreement. In your scenario this appears to be a verbal agreement. As such, the common meaning of the term would be appropriate to consider. Webster's Dictionary defines "scratch," in this context, as "to scrape together" or to "collect with difficultly or by effort." See: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scratch
Dictionary.com includes the idiom, "from scratch" which the source indicates the meaning "from the very beginning" or "from nothing." See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scratch
The issue remains the understanding of the consumer and baker in determing if the use of the term is deceptive when a baking "mix" is used in part rather than starting "from nothing." Even baking flour has been processed to a certain degree so few chefs truly start "from nothing" when baking "from scratch." The term "scratch" is subjective. If the baker used a mix, but also added to the mix to make it their own unique combination of ingredients the client would not likely be succesful in a suit based on the consumer protection act.
To bring such an action, the plaintiff would need to show the baker was deceptive. Based on the definition and usage of the term "scratch" in cooking and considering that most ingredients are premade to some degree, it seems unlikely that the baker would be considered to be acting deceptively. If the customer had addressed the issue directly and asked if any mix was used and the baker deceived the client, then the client could likely file a consumer protection act cause of action and potentially be succesful.
The determining factor will be deception. The term "from scratch" alone is rather vague and does not clearly indicate deception is present when a mix is used in combination with a bakers own blend of other ingredients. If the goal is to avoid an angry client and a potential suit, the best route is to disclose the use of the mix and provide a written agreement defining "from scratch."
Thank you
Well, as someone just opening my business, I haven't been asked this question yet. I do use some doctored mixes. If I was asked whether I bake a particular cake from a mix, or scratch, and the cake in question was a doctored mix, I would feel the need to say more than just yes or no. Before I started really baking and decorating cakes, I had no idea that you could actually use a cake mix, and add ingredients to it other than the way the directions on the box suggest---and I don't think most occaisional home bakers know that either. When I first started using CC, I had no idea what a WASC recipe was. So, if the customer was interested enough to ask the question, then I would want them to be informed of the entire process. I wouldn't just hand over the complete recipe, but I would want them to know it wasn't just the box mix alone. I do supply complete ingredient lists for all my products, for those who want information on allergens and preservatives. It's required for certain types of sales by law where I am, but I always provide it ayway, to cover my a$$.
Edited 1 time for spelling.
& good luck in your new business venture!
The concept of a trade secret would come into play if the baker refused to provide the information on the basis that they have value in their unique recipe. The scenario you propose is different. In that scenario the issue depends on the meaning of "scratch." The Tennessee Consumer Protection Act, TCA Section 47-18- 104, lists unfair or deceptive acts which are prohibited. This section of the law contains a provision that states:
"Engaging in any other act or practice which is deceptive to the consumer or to any other person;"
This catch-all provision could be applicable to your proposed situation. The issue will be the parties understanding of the term "scratch." If this involved a written contract, the term would likely be defined in that agreement. In your scenario this appears to be a verbal agreement. As such, the common meaning of the term would be appropriate to consider. Webster's Dictionary defines "scratch," in this context, as "to scrape together" or to "collect with difficultly or by effort." See: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scratch
Dictionary.com includes the idiom, "from scratch" which the source indicates the meaning "from the very beginning" or "from nothing." See: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scratch
The issue remains the understanding of the consumer and baker in determing if the use of the term is deceptive when a baking "mix" is used in part rather than starting "from nothing." Even baking flour has been processed to a certain degree so few chefs truly start "from nothing" when baking "from scratch." The term "scratch" is subjective. If the baker used a mix, but also added to the mix to make it their own unique combination of ingredients the client would not likely be succesful in a suit based on the consumer protection act.
To bring such an action, the plaintiff would need to show the baker was deceptive. Based on the definition and usage of the term "scratch" in cooking and considering that most ingredients are premade to some degree, it seems unlikely that the baker would be considered to be acting deceptively. If the customer had addressed the issue directly and asked if any mix was used and the baker deceived the client, then the client could likely file a consumer protection act cause of action and potentially be succesful.
The determining factor will be deception. The term "from scratch" alone is rather vague and does not clearly indicate deception is present when a mix is used in combination with a bakers own blend of other ingredients. If the goal is to avoid an angry client and a potential suit, the best route is to disclose the use of the mix and provide a written agreement defining "from scratch."
Thank you
Headache inducing.
So I'm seeing no on the lawsuit from what he said. Here, Jaimie,
If the baker used a mix, but also added to the mix to make it their own unique combination of ingredients the client would not likely be succesful in a suit based on the consumer protection act.
But he also says scratch is a vague term and it should be well defined and to avoid pissing people off--nail it down.
We can ask him more questions on this if we need to.
Well this is what I got. I asked this bakery did they bake from scratch or did they start with a cake mix. they said they baked only from scratch and never used a mix. they used a mix. I have my lawsuit.
So I'm seeing no on the lawsuit from what he said. Here, Jaimie,
If the baker used a mix, but also added to the mix to make it their own unique combination of ingredients the client would not likely be succesful in a suit based on the consumer protection act.
But he also says scratch is a vague term and it should be well defined and to avoid pissing people off--nail it down.
We can ask him more questions on this if we need to.
Oi. Lawsuits over ingredients in a cake, how "crumby"! 
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