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post #151 of 161
Debi, you're a perfect example of someone who hit rock bottom, but picked herself up and worked her butt off to get where you are today.

The key to your story is that you didn't expect "instant gratification", you realized that you had to set goals for yourself and little by little you met those goals.

You're a great role model to all of us here, and you deserve all good things that come your way!


I do believe that our generation was raised differently and that's probably why we agree on so many points. icon_wink.gif

Edited to add.........I guess the rest of us just need to agree to disagree and move on.
post #152 of 161
there's a name for the "mess" this discussion is in:

Situational Ethics. -- the situation defines the ethical structure used as opposed to apply a preexisting, absolute moral structure to the situation. Thus, just about anything can be justified in a given circumstance. The fancy dress up name for "if it feels good, do it."

and yes discussion of that will inevitably lead it seems to mentioning Hitler and most any other tyrant (Khemr Rouge, etc.) that has justified any kind of --?--icde.

Moral absolutes are a PAIN.


The classic example of application of absolute morals vs. situational:

A child is starving to death. Parent has no job, no money, no one who will give assistance. Is the parent justified in stealing food to fee the child. (see Les Miz for long winded discussion of this for example)

Thou shall not kill (by commission or omission) VS. Thou shalt not steal.

Which one trumps the other?

no easy answer.

====

as for the comment live within your means....LOL!!!! maybe in West Virgina a person can survive on $1,500 hundred/month, but in many parts of NJ, especially the closer you get to NYC, that's a months RENT. (when I left NYC, my rent, just the rent, not utilities as well, was $750/month! and that was 10 years ago!)
A mortgage payment of $1,500 is not excessive for that area, in fact that would be low, considering I'm pay $500/month on a home valued at $50K -- so 3x that means her home is worth $150K about and that's low, Low, LOW for homes in that area.

what is that old Native American saying. Don't criticize another until you've walked miles in the person shoes.

-------

societal consensus on right vs. wrong is messy to say the least. that is why there are "laws" -- imperfect, fallible, inadequate, and often needing change.

But what we have as "law" is the best we have to work with at this time, until such time as we change them through proper channels as opposed to the route of anarchy "if it feels good/makes me happy/serves my ends, I'll do it and the rest of you be d...ed!"

-------

we can discuss ad infinitum, ad nauseum, ad blue in the face -- and it will not change one dot, tidle, mote, iota or mind.

we have not only flogged this horse dead, we've stripped of flesh, smashed the bones and ground the remains to dust.


time to bury it folks.
Keep on cakin'!
Keep on cakin'!
post #153 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmo

i was told about a older lady told my husband how they fared during the great depression. She told him people made it by begging borrowing and stealing.

My MIL tells us that she lived next to a railroad track and they got lots of "bums" come to their house, but they ALWAYS asked if there was any WORK they could do for a meal. I 'm sure there are lots of examples going both ways ... just wanted to share the other side, too.


My question to all: If you were backed up in a corner financially to the point of loosing all , what will You do? It takes a lot of faith and integrity not to do anything illegal.[/quote] That's almost an insulting question. It implies that anyone would do "anything", which is I do not believe to be true at all.

Been there. I was actually considered one of the statistically "Homeless" people. My ex husband filed bankruptcy, which meant I had to pay ALL of the marital bills. I couldn't afford an apartment for me and my two kids anymore, so I was forced to move the 3 of us into one room in my parents house for 9 months. Yes, I had a roof over my head, but statistically that is considered homeless. I got paid every two weeks and by the time I paid my bills, I had barely enough money leftover for gas to get to work. I learned to drink coffee then because I could drink it for free at work. My sister gave me a key to her house so I could go there on my lunch hour and raid her refrigerator once in awhile.

Didn't sell cakes from my mom's kitchen, didn't grow pot in my dad's garage, didn't accept money from men for "a night on the town".

I lost it all. And I worked hard one day at a time to show my children how you get thru the bad times. The right way. 25 years later, I have the best reward of all ..... my children tell their friends about their great mom who did "anything it took" to raise them right when times were hard.

" I have been through so much that I don't fear any more. Maybe it is the failures that have taught me to love to succeed or maybe it's the rejections that have toughened me." --- Author Unknown

Character is doing the right thing when nobody's looking. There are too many people who think that the only thing that's right is to get by, and the only thing that's wrong is to get caught. ----J.C. Watts
[/quote


i am not here to insult snybody. If it don't apply to you or anybody, don't take offense.
i have heard of people saying that they will not go hungry and they will to anything to to not be that. I wish people would stop taking things so personal. Maybe you haven't here that where you live. But i live near a city that everyday somebody is robbing and killing to get what they want.
post #154 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmo

payments went way up to 710.00 amonth.




ACK, I'm moving to wherever you are! The rent on my APARTMENT in NJ is $1600 a month, and the "fixer upper" house I used to own (and BOY did it need fixing) cost $200k (and that was considered a STEAL when I bought it in 2004)!!
Tara
<---wonders if anyone uses REAL ingredients anymore--sugar fruit nuts, cream, butter etc--instead of flavoring chemical cream from a bucket with pudding & jello and calling it "mousse"
Tara
<---wonders if anyone uses REAL ingredients anymore--sugar fruit nuts, cream, butter etc--instead of flavoring chemical cream from a bucket with pudding & jello and calling it "mousse"
post #155 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmo

My question to all: If you were backed up in a corner financially to the point of loosing all , what will You do? It takes a lot of faith and integrity not to do anything illegal.



You should read my earlier responses to this post... was in this woman's exact situation and I did NOT do anything illegal (and yes, I lost EVERYTHING)... and it has nothing to do with "faith" (I'm an atheist--the only person I have faith in is ME), and while I do consider myself as having integrity, I don't think it necessarily required that for me to NOT break the law.
Tara
<---wonders if anyone uses REAL ingredients anymore--sugar fruit nuts, cream, butter etc--instead of flavoring chemical cream from a bucket with pudding & jello and calling it "mousse"
Tara
<---wonders if anyone uses REAL ingredients anymore--sugar fruit nuts, cream, butter etc--instead of flavoring chemical cream from a bucket with pudding & jello and calling it "mousse"
post #156 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Been there. I was actually considered one of the statistically "Homeless" people. My ex husband filed bankruptcy, which meant I had to pay ALL of the marital bills. I couldn't afford an apartment for me and my two kids anymore, so I was forced to move the 3 of us into one room in my parents house for 9 months. Yes, I had a roof over my head, but statistically that is considered homeless. I got paid every two weeks and by the time I paid my bills, I had barely enough money leftover for gas to get to work. I learned to drink coffee then because I could drink it for free at work. My sister gave me a key to her house so I could go there on my lunch hour and raid her refrigerator once in awhile.

Didn't sell cakes from my mom's kitchen, didn't grow pot in my dad's garage, didn't accept money from men for "a night on the town".

I lost it all. And I worked hard one day at a time to show my children how you get thru the bad times. The right way. 25 years later, I have the best reward of all ..... my children tell their friends about their great mom who did "anything it took" to raise them right when times were hard.



Wow Debi, you could have just described the last few years of my life! I too, had to take my daughter and move back in with my parents after I lost EVERYTHING (and also got financially "screwed" by my ex-husband).

You've always been someone I looked up to on the boards for your knowledge and business savvy, but knowing that you have been the the same thing that I have (and am still going through) makes you even more of a personal inspiration to me... like I feel like if I really keep busting my a$$ maybe I'll get where I want to be, someday--I can actually overcome all the bull$^&!
Tara
<---wonders if anyone uses REAL ingredients anymore--sugar fruit nuts, cream, butter etc--instead of flavoring chemical cream from a bucket with pudding & jello and calling it "mousse"
Tara
<---wonders if anyone uses REAL ingredients anymore--sugar fruit nuts, cream, butter etc--instead of flavoring chemical cream from a bucket with pudding & jello and calling it "mousse"
post #157 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkZiab

Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

Been there. I was actually considered one of the statistically "Homeless" people. My ex husband filed bankruptcy, which meant I had to pay ALL of the marital bills. I couldn't afford an apartment for me and my two kids anymore, so I was forced to move the 3 of us into one room in my parents house for 9 months. Yes, I had a roof over my head, but statistically that is considered homeless. I got paid every two weeks and by the time I paid my bills, I had barely enough money leftover for gas to get to work. I learned to drink coffee then because I could drink it for free at work. My sister gave me a key to her house so I could go there on my lunch hour and raid her refrigerator once in awhile.

Didn't sell cakes from my mom's kitchen, didn't grow pot in my dad's garage, didn't accept money from men for "a night on the town".

I lost it all. And I worked hard one day at a time to show my children how you get thru the bad times. The right way. 25 years later, I have the best reward of all ..... my children tell their friends about their great mom who did "anything it took" to raise them right when times were hard.



Wow Debi, you could have just described the last few years of my life! I too, had to take my daughter and move back in with my parents after I lost EVERYTHING (and also got financially "screwed" by my ex-husband).

You've always been someone I looked up to on the boards for your knowledge and business savvy, but knowing that you have been the the same thing that I have (and am still going through) makes you even more of a personal inspiration to me... like I feel like if I really keep busting my a$$ maybe I'll get where I want to be, someday--I can actually overcome all the bull$^&!



first off, i would just like to say that i hugely admire you both for being able to overcome all that you have. not only for yourself, but for your kids. those circumstances take strong people to overcome them.

but now here comes my question, and it's a sincere i-would-really-like-to-know question (and this isn't only to pinkziab and indydebi, just anyone willing to answer/ponder, i guess...) what if you hadn't had someone to go to? i think both of you (examples) said you went to your parents' (sorry if i'm mistaken). what if they hadn't been there? what if nobody had been there to relieve just a tiny ounce of the stress? what if (if you've seen the pursuit of happyness you'll know what i'm saying) you had to sleep in a subway bathroom with your children? what if then? (but i guess if you were there, you wouldn't be baking cakes out of a home kitchen... but i hope you get what i'm saying. )

i'm NOT trying to be rude, ignorant, or anything. i just want to know where the line is about what you will and will not do. and i would also like to say, i don't condone crime, no matter how big or small. hell, i've never even stolen gum! and i'd also like to say, i don't think that health laws are frivolous, i'm ALL for clean and up to code food establishments!
"Every child instinctively knows what many adults have long since forgotten: Our differences are not something to be tolerated, they are something to be celebrated."
"Every child instinctively knows what many adults have long since forgotten: Our differences are not something to be tolerated, they are something to be celebrated."
post #158 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by PinkZiab

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmo

My question to all: If you were backed up in a corner financially to the point of loosing all , what will You do? It takes a lot of faith and integrity not to do anything illegal.



You should read my earlier responses to this post... was in this woman's exact situation and I did NOT do anything illegal (and yes, I lost EVERYTHING)... and it has nothing to do with "faith" (I'm an atheist--the only person I have faith in is ME), and while I do consider myself as having integrity, I don't think it necessarily required that for me to NOT break the law.


You have your beliefs, i have mine. Most people today are christians. So that who i am referring too, the majority.
post #159 of 161
Wow, i don't post often, but i see now i have to word things correctly before someone get offended. First of all we all are entitled to our beliefs and opinions. I feel that we should respect each one's opinions without some one getting offended. ok the lady is doing something illegal . So let her suffer is the law catch up with her. Personally it is between her and the hd authorities. I don't have time worring who is legal or not. Its what I AM doing that i should be concerned about. This is a time that we should pray or help, not discredit. And again I defend my beliefs. I have that right and will respect yours. So can we continue to post in peace without emotions intwined? I would appreciate it very much.
post #160 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmo

So can we continue to post in peace without emotions intwined?



Welcome to Cake Central... 95% Women, 5% men who put up with all the Estrogen and stuff icon_biggrin.gif

Ok all joking aside I agree with you jackmo. It's ok to agree to disagree especially on these moral matters as Doug discussed very well.

Anyway, there are always two sides to moral arguments.
(Mod. edited for political content.)
Lisa Kerbes Costello
http://www.lmk4.com
Lisa Kerbes Costello
http://www.lmk4.com
post #161 of 161
A wealth of opinions have been given. Thanks for the input.
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