This being the Cake Decorating Business Forum may mean that more people on here are business owners with a business way of operating. That doesn't make us heartless, that make us business people.

And if the customer wasn't asking for a refund, then certainly nothing is due. If the problem was caused after the cake left your hands, then nothing is due.

It's the same issue as "I left the wedding cake at the venue and the kids at the reception ran into the table and the cake fell over." Would you refund for that scenario? No way.

Once the product leaves your hands, it's out of your hands.

My DH works for UPS. Even they have a CYA clause for "acts of God/nature". They can't control the weather any more than you or I can. So if you ship something guaranteed, but a hurricane, snow storm, earthquake, whatever prevents or delays it's arrival, they'll get it there asap but no refund. I do not think you owe a refund at all. And I don't think it's being impersonal to think so.

Debi is THA BOMB! I have gotten more advice and help, directly and indirectly, from her than any other CC member. And as Forrest says, "that's all I have to say about that."

FYI, UPS is my bread and butter, but I'm not sure I would ship a cake through them. Not if I wanted to be sure it arrived in one piece. Personally, the whole shipping of cakes thing makes me way too nervous.

The only reason anyone would have to question it is because the whole world knew that this hurricane was coming, and if something needed to be received by a certain date, then arrangements should have been made for the item to be delivered before the storm.

What was the date of shipping, and what was the expected date of delivery? Did either you or the customer take into consideration that the Weather Channel was saying "run for cover" for at least a week prior to the hurricane reaching US soil? This is a reason which the customer can use against you.

So, where does the responsibility lie - with the seller or with the customer? Here's where the Act of God clause prevents this liability, and should be considered for future use.

Now, to answer your question, if you would like this customer to be a repeat customer, then if they request a refund, make an offer of a partial refund, because the delay was technically not your fault, it was the decision of the shipper. If they do not make the attempt to recoup funds, then, like they say where I come from, fuhgettaboutit.

In the event that you decide to ship cakes in the future, then inquire with the shipping companies which serve your area as to what insurances they offer, and what their shipping policies are during such inclement weather. If you find something suitable, then tell future customers that they must purchase the additional insurance for the product, or use an alternate shipping company.

Theresa

Mocake: I am jewish, and we do not write out the name of G-D. it is in no way a bad word, just not respectful.

As for you MAc,
obviously you do not know all religions, or you would know that G-D's name is a sacred name and we do not use in in vane.
I found your comment offensive, as you did not know the reason and just jumped to a conclusion.

Thank you everyone for your responses...

I did not have a contract written for this one. I will from now on for shipped cakes and cookies. When I shipped it, it was scheduled to arrive on Friday, not Monday. The Birthday is today. I emailed her, letting her know I will refund the shipping, havent heard back. She is a repeat customer and a good one, so I want to keep ehr happy.

I understand the whole running a business aspect of it, and it techinically was out of my control... and I also know how small actions make a huge difference.

Thank you Debi and everyone else!

I would think that if you contacted your customer as soon as you found out about the delay, they should have been able to come up with "plan B" for the birthday celebration. Ordering something perishable for a special occassion leaves a very small window for error. You don't want it to arrive too soon, and if it arrives late you'd better have a back-up plan.

You don't HAVE to offer any refund, but think how happy you'll make this customer if you do offer a small refund.

I just wanted to pipe in here to say Indydebi rocks! Debi thank you very much for all the advice and wisdom you share with us all of us here on these boards. This forum is a much better place because of you. Do NOT let anyone tell you otherwise!

First. let me commend smab109 for exercising good business sense & realiziing there is a possibility of being asked for a refund of some type. Before it comes up, is the proper time to make a good sound business judgment. There was a hurricane responsible for the late shipment. The customer has not asked for a refund. That probably shows a reasonable attitude on their part. You knew the cake was for a special occasion & did not arrive on time. You feel bad for them. That shows heart on your part.

You need to decide what to do in any such case. Do you want your customers to think that no matter what happens they will get their cake on time? If you do, you also have to allow for floods, crippling snowstorms, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc. If you are going to make it a policy to refund in those instances, you will need to raise your prices appropriately to allow you to do so & stay in business. Is that something you want to do? Your decision. There's a good possibility you will not decide to pretend your shippers are infallible.

You feel bad for the customer & want to make it up in some way. Do it. There are all kinds of ways to do so. Just pick a way that won't be foolish & financially disastrous for you. Some suggestions would be a discount of some amount on their next order, if you also have cookies, a surprise dozen with a note.

Chefpearl--
Seeing as to how I did not know you were Jewish and I am not familiar with the Jewish community or many of the customs...yes, I did "just assume".

However, you must admit that with some people wanting to have "In God We Trust" removed from everything under the sun, prayer removed from every event and meeting, that it could very easily be mis-construed that you were also deleting the name here in a PUBLIC forum.

I, in no means, meant disrespect for your religion and humbly apologize.

I am SOOOOOOOOOO having to bite my tongue here because I would really love to say what I think about some people who have responded to this post but I will be a nice southern woman and sit in the corner and just think the thoughts instead of speaking them
As for the original question, I would have contacted the customer and let them be aware the cake would not arrive on time as soon as I found out it wasn't going to arrive in time. I would make no mention of a refund unless the customer brought it up. She may not have even wanted a refund and you had all this worry over nothing. Don't get me wrong, I would have worried too but we all worry so much over things at times and they end up being nothing.

Back to my corner before I voice my opinion

((((((Debi))))))))

Debi - one of the things that kills me on this chat is the number of people wanting to go into business that also then espouse that they don't want to pursue "the almighty dollar."

Personally, I do not know any successful business that hates earning money.

there is NOTHING WRONG with making money. And the customer isn't always right. and there are some customers you DON'T want. Certian people cost a busienss more money to "serve" than others - get rid of those and you'll do yourself a favor.

Here's my question: When was the cake shipped?

If it was before the hurricane and got stuck in transit, it's an act of God. But it seems like the cake was shipped after the hurricane, and the baker did not take into account that shipping would be delayed. I realize that this is not something many people would think of (I probably wouldn't think of this until it was too late, myself)... But that technically DOES make it a baker/shipper error, does it not?

When I shipped it the estimated arrival date was Friday. On Friday, when I checked the status, it was scheduled for delivery on Monday (today).

I have not heard from the customer yet, I did offer her the reimbursment of shipping and I am also calling UPS.

If it didn't make it there on time, because of UPS, the customer needs to take it up with UPS for shipipng charges - the baker shipped on time -with proof of the tracking number.

Well in that case... You absolutley did nothing wrong, and you are more generous than I would be! But in the end, we all do what WE feel is right.

Sheesh. Didn't expect such an innocent sounding thread to be so tense! Bad week? ha.

I don't ship cakes, probably never will. I have learned from ordering online that shipping is highly unpredictable and if I want something, I better order EARLY. The cake should have been requested to be shipped to where it arrived a day or two before the party, and then stored in the fridge, "just in case". I realize when I order something online I'm at the mercy of the shipper but even more so at the mercy of the shipping people themselves. I do feel the customer should have expected this and worked it into her plans.

Did the customer specifically say she wanted it to arrive ON the party date?

I have never shipped a cake. However, I would like to add my 2 pence...

If it had been my customer, I would have offered a 50% discount on a follow-up order. Not because I felt obligated to, but because I am compassionate. And it IS possible for you to be compassionate and run a successful business.

I object to the idea that there is only one way to operate a successful business, and if you don't operate your business as "X" does, then you are ignorant.

I give away DOZENS of free cakes every year to children who celebrate birthdays while in the hospital. Not only do I buy the ingredients, take the time to bake and decorate them - but I also spend the time and gas money to deliver them (30 minute round trip) - and I've done quite alright for myself. But perhaps that makes me stupid, eh?

I think not.

I can either tell my customer "tough luck", or I can explain that while it was beyond my control, I do have empathy for their situation and am willing to make concessions under the unfortunate (and obviously highly unusual) conditions. I'm not really losing any money, and I have a customer who now thinks even higher of me. Win-win.

Now, can we do away with the attitude of "this is how I run my business - therefor, it's the ONLY way to run a business"? You can be smart and helpful and still be wrong on occasion.

If you can afford to make exceptions, then you certainly can do so.

Compassion does not have to mean that your business suffers as a result. If you want to show compassion through your business but have business practices that cause your business to fail, you've not achieved your goal.

The fact of the matter is you have to pick and choose your causes. Just like you can't accommodate every poor soul who is in a jam and didn't order in time, you can't give the wedding cake for free when the best man falls into it during the Chicken Dance, you can't do a freebie for everyone who presents a good case for needing one...etc. You have to decide what you can and cannot do.

I can not imagine thinking the baker owed me anything in this circumstance, unless she knew it wouldn't arrive on time when she sent it. And quite frankly, ordering something like that is taking a pretty big risk anyway. I would hope that someone choosing to take the risk can afford it. If the OP wants to refund or offer a future discount, she certainly can do that. But it just doesn't fit to say anyone who wouldn't is heartless.

Sometimes we have to remember business IS business. We should be kind, helpful, and giving when we can and when it makes sense to us. But there has to be a line, or you are no longer IN business.

I work in an industry that is bound by contracts and by law. From time to time, customers become very upset because we can't help them. Believe me, we bend over backwards where I work, trying to please our customers. But when you didn't contract for what you now need, well, sometimes that's just gotta be your problem. No company that will stay in business for the long haul can continuously offer goods and services that are "free". Even if that seems cold and heartless. We have to say things like, "I'm sorry, but by law I cannot say you paid when you didn't." "I'm sorry, but you didn't choose that option, so we cannot provide that service now." "I'm sorry, but that situation is specifically excluded." Those are things that there is no legal choice about. To do otherwise would put us before a judge. However, staying in business effects more than a single person, often times. Taking care of the business so you can be profitable is having a heart, too.

To me, it's not about whether or not to be compassionate... that is obviously the choice of the business owner. What I STRONGLY object to is the notion that if you offer any type of compensation, you are a fool.

I will never forget placing an order with The Swiss Colony back in 1998 (my very first with them). The order was over $700 and I was going to be dividing up those large packages (the meat, cheese, petit four assortments) between family members, co-workers, etc. When it arrived, all of the chocolates and petit fours had melted. And while the weather was not their fault, when I called them, they offered to re-send the entire order. I objected telling them it wasn't necessary that only the chocolates had melted... and they told me they would rather replace the entire order "just in case" the heat had affected anything else.

An ENTIRE $700 order! No questions asked! Guess who has a loyal customer for life? I ALWAYS order from them during the holidays because I know they value my business and care about customer satisfaction.

And then there was the time in 1988 when I had a new baby and I opened a package of Huggies to find that a manufacturing error screwed up the tapes of about half the diapers in the package - so that I had to use duct tape to secure the diapers to my baby. When I called the company, they sent me a TON of coupons, about 3 or 4 free packs, a few $5 off coupons as well as several $2 off coupons. Even though that time was their error, they needed only compensate me for a partial pack - but instead, they went above and beyond. Huggies was the only brand I ever purchased from that point on, and I had 4 more children.

My point is, that you CAN make concessions for your customers and still run a successful business. And to encourage others to think only about the $$ and not their customers OVERALL happiness is irresponsible. If there were only one way to run a business, why would we all need to draw up business plans... wouldn't the bank just hand US the plan and tell us we needed to follow it or fail?

Has the customer ASKED for a refund? (I haven't read the entire thread, so am not sure) I would call them and tell them its not your fault and ask them how you can make them happy. Maybe make them another cake for a discount at the next event? I wouldn't refund it either, as it wasnt your fault...

I'm sure we all try to give excellent customer service, but I'm also sure that some of us can't afford to compite whit big companies when it come to refunds. When somebody sells by the millions, $700.- it's nothing to keep a customer happy. Now, sometimes we can keep a customer happy whithout even offering a refund. That's what customer service is. Keeping customers happy and keep them buying.

I had to deliver a cake that colapsed on the way, and I told my customers I wouldn't charge a thing. It was still edible just not presentable. So the problem was solved on the customers part.They still needed something for the party. So I lended one of my dummies that was juist like the one they ordered to put on the table. Well long story short, even though I didnd't charge for the cake, they still paid for it. That's keeping a custoer happy without a refund.

I have personally worked for a large 20,000 square foot warehouse (managing their data systems, conveyors and such) I would never in a million years ship anything delicate like a cake via UPS. If any of you have ever walked into a warehouse where shipping is taking place, you will wonder how anything gets to where it needs to go in one piece!! Boxes are placed on huge conveyors that go into the air and are kicked around with "shoes". Many times boxes will fall off if one of the boxes isn't taped right or they will bang into each other. They go down twisty turn shoots into areas for loading into trucks. They are often thrown around, tossed and even put on top of other boxes and other boxes on top of them. I can't imagine a cake surviving all of that!!!! Would love to know your secret if cakes arrive in good shape.

And I agree, we are all in business...that is why many of us have these contracts with everyone to make sure that yes, we understand things can go wrong, but we are in business and we are here to make money. Anything out of our control has to remembered as being out of our control.

Someone mentioned swiss colony reshipping...how many years ago did you say? I wonder if they would do that today, with the cost of everything going up up up...everytime I order anything from CK products they put everywhere a disclaimer that if something is food related, they aren't responsible for issues. Everytime I order from several chocolate companies, they do the same thing. (some won't even ship in the summer)

Refunding someone just because you feel bad or someone else messed up is going to well, put you out of business really fast. In the case of the diapers, well that WAS their fault...I sure hope they replaced an item. If I had a cake order and I didnt put any frosting on it, and the customer complained, yeah, I would give their money back. diapers don't work without tape and cake just isnt cake without well, frosting! Now if they shipped the diapers out and someone at the store you bought it from opened the box and ripped all the tape off, I highly doubt the company would have even spoken to you..they would have said take it up with the store. Do you see the difference? How many times have you bought something and it broke 6 months later..and you wrote to the manufacturer asking for a replacement or refund? Did they send you your money back? No, they sent you to a "authorized repair shop".

Liike Leah said, we are in business. Business and emotions do not go together. Period.

Here is my 2 cents worth, I believe in customer first, regardless if they are trying to get anything for free or if there is an actual issue either through yourself or through other parties. Total refund or replacement is the best policy -- totally agree with PoleKitten. As an example, my daughter recently got married and we had ordered the bridal bouquet from a florist, received it the Friday afternoon but it was not what we had ordered, called to let them know of the issue, they basically said that they would not deliver another bouquet to us and that we were on our own and have a happy wedding day -- crushing my daughter. Regardless, I ended up making her bouquet just like I did the rest. It happened that the following Saturday, my mother in-law passed away. Had the florist for the bridal bouquet been nice enough to replace their mistake, they would have gotten the following week's business which came to approximately $5,000.....so always try to be committed to your customers and ensure that your product exemplify quality, your business is at stake here.