Perfectly said and thank you for your words of wisdom moderators like you make newbies feel a bit better.

Thank you for the enoucragement even if I don't plan on running my own business just found a love for decorating and baking for those I care about.

Let me also add, that I LOVE the hype. How much fun is it to hear from clients about how they want this over the top cake like they see on TV. I'm game!!! Thanks MTV super sweet sixteen, cake challenges, and Ace of Cakes for the surge in business. Also for somewhat educating some of these clients so that they understand what I'm talking about when I say rkt sculpture and fondant...lol

I can sooooo see all sides of this debate⦠Sorry if the post ends up too long or too personal, but here it goesâ¦

With a business/marketing major, I currently run a company that has nothing to do with cakes⦠Some of my work involves graphic design... Also, I happen to be a certified fashion designer, a hobby I thought Iâd turn into a profession, but after the classes realized it wasnât me after all.

I am a pretty good cook, the kind who never follows a recipe exactly or measures too closely, where everything is taste-tested, mixed until it looks right and cooked until done⦠Iâve been baking for half of my life, and Iâd try a new fascinating recipe on the spot even if it is 1am when I come across itâ¦

So, I got bitten by the cake decorating bug a little over a year ago⦠After the first couple of fondant-covered cakes, all my friends and family stated âyou should go into businessâ⦠I started fantasizing about it too⦠No formal culinary school, but hey, good cooking, graphic design and marketing experience, what more can one need?! Bought several books (or should I say several dozenâ¦), researched licensing, looked up local âcompetitionâ, was on the verge of writing up a biz plan, and had a couple of people say âcount me inâ as potential investors were I to make the leap⦠Even wrote a long-winded e-mail to my favorite bakery (a famous one in the SF Bay Area) asking for advice on starting the business â thankfully, it never left my Drafts folder, and it is close to the type of written material AllCakedOut is referring to⦠Oh, and discovered CC!

And then, I had to do 5 pretty elaborate huge cakes in two weeks for our and friendsâ parties⦠by the end of it I hated my kitchen, the never-ending pile of pans, bowls, spatulas, etc. begging to be washed and put away, and even the taste of my favorite raspberry Chambord ganache seemed appalling â I had an open jar of dill pickles sitting on my counter!⦠I was a zombie, playing with cake all night and tuning in to work the following morning (did I mention I have a toddler and a preschooler, and that hubby didnât have a real dinner in the meantime?!... )

At that point I realized that cakes â just as fashion design â will be just a hobby. Something to enjoy. Something that I would do in my time, with my own hands, for people and events I choose to do it for, with flavors and designs that are up to me and not have to meet someone elseâs questionable expectations⦠And my day job is too good to abandon after allâ¦

I guess what Iâm trying to say is that people should be allowed their soul-searching and day-dreaming, and in fact they may have been born to do cake art with no formal training and may make it big overnight⦠BUT ignorance should not be an excuse to jump head over heels into anything that they may consider cool â or profitable - after a TV show and expect to be whole-heartedly accepted into training for free or to be given advice of the goodness of one's heart just because they asked...

This happens in every business and in every industry, it's not just the cake decorating industry that it happens to. The thing is it's a process of learning to accept it and working with it instead of against it. You gain a lot more respect and referral business by being the helpful person in the area than by being the alternative. Like another poster mentioned, back when I was getting married I was on theknot and I'd say there are at least 10 or more brides a year that try to turn some aspect of the wedding into a business because it was "so much fun" for their wedding .. The ones that get me now are the ones that say "I can make my own wedding cake" (um, yea, but ANYways... )

I have been involved in multiple industries and the people I percieved as being the most successful were the people that didn't fear me becoming competition. Granted, we all have this relationship of being good friends but we'd take the opportunity to pull business away from eachother if presented with the opportunity, but that's the nature of the beast for not only that industry, but every industry. It's not personal, it's business. You're in business to MAKE MONEY, PERIOD. The drive is what wakes you up in the morning. I was just having a discussion with DH tonight about me being able to surivive a job that would require me to be up at 4:30AM, I told him "depends on where the decimal point is..", he said $100/hr, I said, "I'll be up at 4:15" LOL.. The thing is, I'm a businesswoman first, the only way a business will remain viable is if it has loyal paying customers for the long term. I also know what a job needs to have for me to get up in the morning.

I got into the cake part of things because I wasn't getting out on the road as much as I'd like to and got tired of doing 34 freebie cakes in one year. It was either quit or get the license and I had the kitchen space available and $4,000 in built up small wares equipment. Of course, the kitchen space has since fallen through (btw - even when dealing with family, get it in writing and have the contract!), but I now know if I build a new kitchen I have a niche that works for me and within 3 years I'll be busier than I want to be. I am not competition with anyone in my area because they are not my business, *I* am my business and I know I deliver a high quality product for my market niche for a reasonable price that pays my bills. Nothing more, nothing less. When I get contacted, I'm not afraid to answer questions OTOH, I'm also not afraid to tell it how it is. I also know when to just shut up and listen (not to mention and shake head sometimes).

I will say though, having the pic of me with Duff at the front of my portfolio has sold a ton of cakes for me (I've also got the pic with Colette from that same day).. But in all actuality, there are always going to be people who are good at doing whatever it is professionally that you want to be doing, you just learn to roll with it instead of fighting it. OTOH, no matter what industry you're in, if someone is competing on a professional level, they need to be CHARGING PROFESSIONAL LEVEL for that work. Now THAT pisses everyone in every industry off when someone comes in and just charges a minimal amount "because I'm just gaining experience".. BS, if you're going to play with the big dogs charge like one or go back to the porch LOL... but everyone needs to start somewhere and the best lecture I ever got professionally was from a trainer who reamed me out for doing a cheap show once, and I never did THAT again!!! (he wasn't being mean or crass, he was instilling a value that every industry has and as a young "kid" in the industry and in business I didn't fully understand)... His words were, even if this is your first day as a professional, you get paid at the level to work as a professional because that is what you are whether you've been in the industry 2 minutes or 2 decades, never be afraid to charge what your worth because if you don't value your product and service no one else is going to.

krysoco, you picked the words right off my brain. I read this post last night before there were any replies and just clicked out because it pissed me off. I started making cakes because of a picture I saw in Parents magazine and wanted to make my son's first birthday cake special instead of buying one from the store. I never even saw Ace of Cakes & Food Network never even crossed my path because I can't cook to save my life! I happened to be in michaels and found the cake section and bought some stuff & I practiced for the few months leading up to my son's birthday and it was like I was bitten! I was one of those women that you probably see and snicker at because you know they don't know what they are doing in that aisle and they are wondering aimlessly. I just signed a lease on my own space two months ago and I'm just a housewife. I did own my own salon before I got pregnant and sold it, and my husband owns his own business(15years) and neither of us have a marketing/business degree.

OP, I think you should step back and take a look around and you will see that everyone starts somewhere and you are amongst a group of people that, for better or for worse, want to help each other. If I were just starting out, being just a housewife w/ no formal degree and all, and I found this site and read your post, I would probably back down and rethink my love of making cakes. Try to look at this from a different view instead of on that perch you sit on.

Welcome to Cake Central.

I guess MY question would be....."Why is this so important to you OP?" You have your business why not allow others to do the same. They will fail, or succeed, on their own.

I'm NOT a professional baker although I get calls all the time. Just turned down 2 wedding cakes because I my summer's are busy with church activities. Let me tell you MY experience.

I was (emphasis on WAS) a good friend to a caterer in my small town. There are only 2 caterers here. Anyway, I was doing a wedding cake for a friend's granddaughter as a gift for her since she did my son's wedding at almost cost (she's a florist). I saw him at WalMart and he asked what I was doing with all the "cake stuff". I told him. I'm legal by the way. So, guess what? Got a call from the Health Department the next day because HE had reported me for making "illegal" cakes.

The OTHER caterer follows me around WalMart every time she sees me, asking me questions, talking, chatting, etc. Look, I'm old, not STUPID I know what she is trying to do. She has even asked ME how I made coconut cake. Know what I did? I told her. Yep, that's right, I told her.

See where I'm going with this? Worrying about competition makes one paranoid and in some cases cause one to act foolishly. Be very careful. CCer's are HELPERS not HURTERS.

By the way, MY post was meant to be a helper to someone.

Keep on Cakin' and have a good 'un!

Beth from KY

The original post, although sounding cynical, it is the truth. I'm sure it was not ment to offend anyone here on CC but to draw our attention to one of the trend in the marketplace now.

I for one is in a profession for 26 years (bookkeeping and administrative assistant) which I personally don't like doing because it kills my creative spirit, but it pays the bills and afford me to bake and decorate cakes. Even with my business aptitude, I'm not very goot at keeping my personal books, so when I started a cookie business it went in the red all the time, even though I made great cookies, I could not balance the finances well. My sister who has a college degree in accounting could not figure it out.

From the day I was born, I have been in the kitchen. I love to cook and bake. At 13 I wrote my own recipe book (99% of the recipes were never tried, but I love to create things). I love to paint, sketch, sew, make my own dress patterns, and just creative. Now I'm decorating cakes part time and would love to do the business full time, but now looking for space to rent. When I want to stay motivated, I watch Ace of Cakes, or looke through my cake decorating magazines...

Here's an example of what AllaboutCakes was talking about...I recently took a Wiltons class in Fondant & gumpaste (I have been teaching myself so I wanted to see if close up if what I was doing is right)...and one student said she was at the Cordon Bleu and is wasting all her money because she thought she would be doing more cake decorating. Then I realize she had no idea or real interest in serious baking and cake decorating. My reason for saying this is not because is was in cullinary school, but her whole attitude in the Wilton class stunk! . She thought the techniques and excitement came through osmosis She was never prepared for class, nor paid any attention to the instructor...Hello?! Just lazy and wanted to make money. It has to be your passion, even if you don't have business skills, you may need a partner to give you balance (like me, I have my sister). As I can see from the members on CC, there is passion about what we do, however, it just drives me crazy when I see the "amoeba" out there think it's all a "cake walk"...

Bakers and decorators, let us do it with passions

PS: Thank God for spell check...

Man, too many people look way too hard for something to get offended about.

If you learn to pipe your first rose, then jump immediately to "I should open a business" and actually see yourself in this thread, then go ahead and get offended.

If you have been decorating for years and years and are just thinking "someday", and fully intend to get all your ducks in a row before actually opening, then I really don't see what you have to be offended about. I don't really care what background you have - housewife, student, or whatever - as long as you really think/ plan things out first.

I should have mentioned : part of why I get upset by the "I just got this whim in my head, now tell me where to start FROM THE BEGINNING", is that I DID email people back at the beginning. Nicely written, too - before I get accused of writing offensive replies. You'd think that taking the time to write back would garner at least a thank you, right? Nope.. I'd either receive NO reply at all, or a reply that was either incredulous at / bitching about the fact that you can't do this from home / telling me that they were just going to do it from home anyway (truly the mark of someone serious, right?), etc.

As for the comment that I should be happy I have people offering to work for free... are you serious? Bringing someone in to "work for free" would cost me a FORTUNE in time and material. It's one thing to make an investment in someone who wants to work for you, but to even consider doing that for someone on a starry eyed whim of going off on their own.. what??

Training is an investment from both sides. If someone wants to be on their own, etc.. they should be serious and invest in training. There is no shortage of training available. If someone is looking to be an employee, with reasonable expectations and a good head on their shoulders, that's a completely different thing.

To the person who implied that I'd look down on anyone who didn't have a Cordon Bleu degree.. did you even read what I said?

Being afraid of competition? Uh, no. I welcome competition. I just think it's insane to be asked to *train* someone - for free - to become that competition later. I even tried to put myself in their shoes for a minute.. and I still can't even imagine having the balls to contact my future competition to ask that of them!

I love how my vague complaints of trends I've seen here has resulted in personal attacks against me. You look for personal offense in something I said, when it certainly wasn't directed at any one person in particular.. then insult me *directly* as you complain about how you feel insulted. Wow, hypocrisy.

You know, the legalities, regulations, etc were the first thing I looked at when I decided to open a business. It was part of "is this a feasible plan?" thinking... and I think fairly basic if you're serious about getting in to it. When someone emails me, then acts surprised that there are actually laws to follow, it strikes me as really naive. I hate the emails that feel like "La la la.. I have a frosting bag and now I'm going to open a business!"

I also don't know why there is some assumption that I don't help people? I contribute cake to a handful of charities on a regular basis, have a large sponsorship arrangement with another non profit, AND am set up with another organization to be a guest teacher - they have a group of differently-abled teens and young adults who learn new skills every week / month, and I'm the one who'll teach them cake decorating. I'm SO looking forward to it. I also regularly get emails from other decorators both locally and from across the country about different techniques, I haven't been stingy with the help there, either.

You want me to look at my post and see how horribly offensive I've been? If you're actually offended by this, you really need to take a look at how offensive YOU have been / could be if you'd actually behave in the manner I'm complaining about!

Don't you think - for even a second - that maybe seeing a show on tv, getting an indea in your head, then emailling someone in the business to ask for free training, all the while commenting on how EASY and fun their job is would be even just mildly rude and insulting?

Going to LCB is a waste of $$$.

Mike

I believe the sociological term for what Mike describes is (ahem) "low barrier employment."

Low barrier= low start-up costs, low paid educational costs, low overhead (at least using home kitchen), short period of time from start-up to first production of product.

High barrier - starting a MRI center, for example. High cost, high formal educational requirements, etc.

Low barrier professions have high turnover rates. High barrier professions weed people out with education, infrastructure, and financial requirements.

High barrier professions have rules and costs to join membership communities (like the American Neurological Association) http://www.aneuroa.org

Some people assume individuals in high barrier professions are "better." Me -- I like to evaluate my doctor just as critically as my cakes. Low barrier does necessarily equate to low skill. It just means you can produce a product with less monetary investment than other professions.

Low barrier professions have more open membership communities (like CC). Some might think that is the great thing about cakes, then.

[and note, my post is not meant to offend anyone, including brain surgeons! ]

edited for spelling

AllCakedOut:

As MY post stated I was trying to help you. I didn't take offense at your post and I certainly hope I didn't offend you by mine. I was trying to point out that when the "competition word" comes into play we sometimes forget who we really are and that makes us....react differently that we normally would.

Anyway, so sorry if I offended and Have a nice day!

Beth in KY

Mindywith3boys, I really don't think AllCakedOut was referring to you at all. I think they were referring to the people that think this job is so much fun (as it can be) without taking into consideration that it is REALLY hard and really expensive. The people that romanticize the whole thing. I also don't think she was criticizing people who take Wilton courses, but the people who take ONE Wilton course and want to go into business without doing any research into what it will take and how much money and headache it is to actually start up. I think the frustration comes from the people who have worked their tails off to actually start up a legal business and Joe off the street wants to come in and get free training. Now, I've not experienced people doing that, but I have experienced alot of that "Oh your job must be so much fun, I'm so jealous." It is fun. Lots of fun. Its also lots of work and stress.

Danielle

I am a brain surgeon and I am offended!

(And now the American Neurological Association has demanded that my post be deleted!!!!!!!)

OK -- just kidding. Thanks Mike. I've got a warped sense of humor (if you can call it that).

No problem Bethola,

To answer your question.. it's important to me because it's not only annoying, it's really insulting at times.

This weekend for instance. I was cutting and serving sheets to a laarge crowd. No real sense of a line, just a big mob. Anyway, this one chick camps out next to the dummy cake, starts loudly critiquing the work, telling her friend how easy the whole thing is, and a whole lot of "see? I can do this... I'm going to get into business myself.."

I'm talking like 2 ft away from me. Now, after a LONG week of getting ready for that event, baking my ass off, enduring countless hours of heat outside, etc etc - and this was an event I've been working towards for the last 6 months! - it was REALLY insulting to hear how fun and easy things would be for her. Seriously insulting to have her camp out there, taking up room when there was that massive crowd trying to get by, and just loudly carrying on like that. Kinda put a big punctuation on the annoyance from the emails, ya know?

I think I also can read between the lines and get the point of AllCakedOut's post.

My degree is in horticulture (though I no longer work at all in that field and no longer call myself a horticulturist !). During the time I actually worked in that field, everyone who had started a seed in a dixie cup thought they were a horticulturist. We had people come into the nursery constantly wanting to know if they could fill pots, water plants, etc.

All of my florist friends say the same thing -- let someone do a flower arrangement for their dining room table and they are ready to open a flower shop.

The people in my town who jumped on the "interior decorating" bandwagon a few years ago are more than likely no longer calling themselves decorators.

Once at a wedding, there was a very up-scale photographer. I heard a man go over and tell him that he has taken pictures of this or that and finally said "yeah, I'm a photographer too." The reply was "who isn't these days." The photographer wasn't trying to be insulting, but you could tell he hears that everywhere he goes.

Over the last couple of years, they "job" shows have really been popping up all over TV. My son has wanted to be an Ice Road Trucker, Deep Sea Fisherman, and many odd jobs (thanks to the show Dirty Jobs), because they all look so cool on TV!

Two weekends ago, while I was setting up a wedding cake, I had to spend 45 minutes in conversation with the "decorator." I had already been told that the person supplying the flowers was a "friend of the family" and they were not hiring a florist, so I didn't know who this person was. She watched me (standing in my personal space) put on every border, set everything up, etc. I might as well have been charging her a teaching fee. This woman proceeded to tell us that she is an interior decorator and florist. Later, she told me that she had made an anniversary cake for her parents 50th, and that she is also a cake decorator. She said, "yeah, I could have made this cake, but I figured I would have so much else to do." Then she proceeded to tell me "what an easy business it is," etc. -- I think that is precisely the undertone you feel when someone just pops up and suddenly wants to decorate cakes. It felt like the longest cake set-up ever!

Hi, I'm pretty new here and haven't done many posts. I just wanted to say that I can understand where she is coming from. I have been decorating cakes for about 5 years now and it all started when my toddler wanted a cake that our local grocer couldn't do. At the time, where I live, you couldn't find a bakery who did cakes. Still to this day the only lady around here you can order special cakes from does it in her home and is really doing it as a learning experience until she feels confident opening a business. Anyways - I did the cake for my son and after that a few family members asked, birthdays kept coming and over the years I have gotten quite alot of practice. I'm no pro but I feel pretty good about my ability. I only do cakes for family and friends and I never charge, the cake is usually my gift. I really enjoy doing it, but I have this sister-in-law that makes her self feel better by putting everyone else down. She decided to pick up a wilton kit and start decorating after making a comment like icing roses look like thy would be so simple to make. She has never had any intrest in decorating cakes but though it looked easy and couldn't stand the attention that other family members were giving my cakes at parties. After about 3 months for her giving it a go, she called me to ask if I would make her sons b-day cake because she just didn't have the time-lol! I just wanted to say that those who truly have no intrest or dedication will weed their selves out! While I understand ones need to vent- believe me I DO, when someone thinks they are being insulted or put down its hard to step back and read between the lines to see that you weren't putting all of us at home moms and want to be someday decorators in one boat.
Sorry for the long ranting post but I think I can understand where you are coming from about the spur of the momonet I'm going to be a cake decorator ppl! Just give those ppl time to try a few cakes and find out it's not just ploping icing on a cake, it requires alot of work and effort and they will be on to the next fad they think they can master in a week.!
Thanks for reading thru my inexperienced posting-lol!

I'm guilty of having wanted to be a deep sea fisherman.. but I was guilty of that looooong before that show came out, and it was as a result of knowing people in it... and all the crap they went through in their job.. and STILL wanting to! (To my credit - they - knowing me - agreed that it'd be a great match for me!). LOL!

Thanks for the post southerncake. You worded the issue way better than I did. Especially the description of the longest set up ever - these people have NO respect for our *time*, which I DO have a value on.

I didnt get a chance yet to read through everything posted. I think it is just that there are some people who get ahead of themselves. (ie. I havent decorated a cake YET...but how do I get started with a cake decorating business??) It is like the cart before the horse cliche.

I plan on building a very small commercial kitchen in my basement (which is legal here). I do not any business training. I do not have formal decorating training. But it's not going to stop me from trying. I plan on paying for everything in cash (I wont be taking out loans) and I am hunting for used equipment and super great deals on ebay). I really FEEL like I have the talent for this. If you all think otherwise...LET ME KNOW!! LOL!

Merissa, your cakes are beautiful!!! I think you will do really well opening your own business!!!!

Ok, I've read through every one of these posts and I've seriously thought about what everyone has said.

My two cents: AllCakedOut was NOT intending to offend anyone and was just blowing off steam about the entire situation created by the "Ace of Cakes" phenomenon. It's not just AofC's either, it's Next Food Network Star, as well, and all the focus on The FN in general.

If you're on CC, self-taught and/or Wilton Class, you're looking at cake photos, reading posts, and pretty much soaking up what you can then you're NOT the people she was referring to! The reference is to those who aren't even hobbiest, just dabblers who want to jump right in and compete/run with the big dogs before they really even know what it takes.

For those who've been "in the trenches" for awhile, even baking at home for family and friends and pulling all-nighters qualifies, it's a little irritating. My husband calls the dabblers "gung ho's". They get a taste of something and suddenly they're all gung ho to build an empire and get rich...then they find out what it really takes and they lose interest. It happens in a lot of industries, not just cake decorating, but I think we get more than our share because of it's a 'low-barrier' profession (thanks for the education Petit-four ). Those same people waste our time and money and then move onto their next big idea, leaving us feeling a little used and jaded .

Of course, there are exceptions - talented, enthusiastic, and dedicated people out there who do the exact same things, but they are unfortunately tarred with the same brush. Hopefully those folks will do something to make themselves stand out and make us take notice, then we'll grab the opportunity to extend the hand of friendship and assistance and give someone a leg up in the business.

One of my favorite quotes "A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle".

Lastly, lets all try to remember that most folks have good intentions when they post and they aren't trying to offend anyone. When you read a post try to give the person the benefit of the doubt and realize that postings are like email, it's hard for emotions to come through and sometimes things get read the wrong way.

Have a great day everybody and play nice .

And...just so I don't offend anyone with my use of the term "gung ho":

From www.freedictionary.com
gung ho or gung-ho (gngh) adj. Slang
meaning: Extremely enthusiastic and dedicated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Earlier Gung Ho, motto of certain U.S. Marine forces in Asia during World War II, from Chinese (Mandarin) gnghé, to work together (short for gngyèhézuòshè, Chinese Industrial Cooperative Society) : gng, work + hé, together.]
Our Living Language Most of us are not aware of it today, but the word gung ho has been in English only since 1942 and is one of the many words that entered the language as a result of World War II. It comes from Mandarin Chinese gnghé, "to work together," which was used as a motto by the Chinese Industrial Cooperative Society. Lieutenant Colonel Evans F. Carlson (1896-1947) borrowed the motto as a moniker for meetings in which problems were discussed and worked out; the motto caught on among his Marines (the famous "Carlson's Raiders"), who began calling themselves the "Gung Ho Battalion." From there eager individuals began to be referred to as gung ho. Other words and expressions that entered English during World War II include flak, gizmo, task force, black market, and hit the sack.

Thanks Moxey2000.

Yes -- other low barrier professions -- hair dressing, day care, crafts, sewing, drywall taping, wood carving, floral arranging, etc. There are people who excel in these lines of work, and they get a lot of "oh, I can do that."

Just go to a real hardware store (not Home Depot) and hear contractors griping about do-it-yourself jobs they are called into to fix or finish.

It is part of the profession, not a personal statement. It doesn't cost a lot, in the big scheme of things to open a cake business.

But delivering a 3 tier wedding cake after the bride changed colors three times in 99% humidity after a morning hail storm and a flat tire and walking into a country club neat as a pin and graciously smiling as the bride's aunt tells you "I bake too."

That's priceless.

(and I now have to go and deal with a crowd of angry neurologists....)