Do I avoid the "do you use a mix" question?? - Page 10

Speaking of eggs... I paid $4.65 for two and a half dozen eggs yesterday. How much are these going to go up???

In NYS, it is perfectly legal to purchase "unpasteurized" eggs from inspected, legal farms. Here are the regulations for selling eggs from farms:

Selling Eggs Egg: cartons must be marked with grade and size. Eggs may be sold in bulk displays but grade and size must be indicated. Eggs should be washed and candled. Cartons must include the name and address of producer and the date packed. For a fact sheet on egg sales consult:

www.agmkt.state.ny.us/FS/general/farmprods.html


When eggs are baked, they become, de facto, safe to eat (assuming they are fresh). Pasteurized egg products are used when raw whites are used, such as in some meringue frostings, etc.

And again -- scratch or mix -- we here in NYS are required to label the exact ingredients we use, and we are legally required to answer questions about our food's ingredients. So, if the question is, "Do you use a mix" the OP could refer the person to her labeled boxes. They can read for themselves exactly what is in the cake. And in the case of mixes, BHA, BTA, etc. would sort of answer the question, I would think.

As food providers, we cannot side-step any of these inquiries in NYS. It is interesting to learn about the wide variations between states, however!

Between 5-14 and 6-4 (approx 3 weeks), the price of my eggs went up 7.7%. Between 6-4 and 6-11 (1 week), the price went up an ADDITIONAL 9.7% .... a total of 18.1% in less than 30 days!!! Amortize this over 12 months (assume 18.1% every month) = 217.1% annual increase. So in simple math (not compounded math, which would be WAY worse!), your 4.65 will be over $10 by the end of 12 months.

Debi Does Data!

I see another cake pricing increase coming!

I stand corrected on the pastuerization of eggs in MI. The AG says only washed before sale.

Mike

And I am not doubting that anyone who says they can tell if it's scratch or mix can really tell that. I can't tell but I'm not doubting you. But would you all not admit that most people cannot tell the difference? Especially in light of the fact that so many people get it wrong wrong wrong. There are posters in this thread testifying to that. I've had many comments over the years about my 'scratch' cakes and I just smile.

If it's a pleasing cake it is often deemed 'scratch' no matter how you made it. If it's an unpleasant cake it's deemed a mix. Let there be no mistake cake mix takes the wrap for many a suffering scratch failure.

You can get a metallic taste from a wonky cake pan no matter what kinda cake you make in it. If the metallic taste is from the baking powder then baking powder is often an ingredient in scratch cake.

If cake mix really tasted as bad as it seems to taste to some of us it would not could not be a million dollar baby and it's probably a billion dollar baby.

Mike -- (sending a hug) -- I did not mean to contradict you. I was just mentioning our state's rules -- I realize they vary widely. And yes, for meringues -- I use the pastuerized 100%, and am obligated to do so.

k8 -- yeah! I checked a box -- no preservatives. Cool! Anyway -- what we have to do is write out everything -- including Soy Lecithin, Guar Gum, Xanthan Gum. If I use colorings, I have to list them too -- like yellow No 5, I think is in the many of the yellow mixes.

So, for me, "scratch" is easier on many levels -- simplfies my life big time.

Anyway -- I sort of feel I am re-stating things, but since the OP is in my area, I thought I should mention that (at least my inspector) was very, very clear and insistent that we must answer each and every question about content. I suppose a legal answer to the OP's original question would be: "I list my ingredients on my box. Please check them if you have any concerns."

Someone suggested answering the question with the reply "Why is it important to you?" By law, in NYS, that is illegal because 1) we are not allowed to quiz people on their diets 2) we have to disclose.

OK (taking deep breath) -- I now have to go and make dinnner.

No no no I read your posts I mean do you or does anyone know about BHT the preservative that is not generally included in the ingredients because it is indeed not an ingredient. It used to be used on the packaging literally used on the box and packaging especially for cereal products as I recall.

BHT--anyone?

Okay, with all the talk about box mixes containing preservative, chemicals and nasty artificial stuff I made a list to compare the twoâ¦

First - the ingredient list from a boxed brownie mix:
Sugar
Enriched Bleached Flour (wheat flour, niacin, reduced iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid)
Chocolate chips (sugar, chocolate liquor, cocoa butter, soy lecithin (emulsifier), vanilla)
Canola Oil
Natural Cocoa
Cocoa (processed with alkali)
Wheat starch
Salt
Artificial Flavor
Sodium Bicarbonate
Add: Eggs & Water

Second - the ingredient list for scratch brownies:
Sugar
Enriched-Bleached AP Flour (Bleached wheat flour, niacin, iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid)
Semi-sweet chocolate chips (sugar, chocolate, cocoa butter, milkfat, soy lecithin, vanillin-an artificial flavor, natural flavor)
Canola Oil
Cocoa ( cocoa, cocoa processed with alkali)
Salt
Bacarbonate of Soda (cornstarch, bicarbonate of Soda, Sodium Aluminum Sulfate, Monocalcium Phosphate)
Eggs
Water

The only difference I can find between the two is the âWheat Starchâ in the box mix. The box mix also has individual component label âartificial flavorâ but the scratch version has âartificial flavorâ in the chocolate chips so I guess they even out.

So how do I identify the preservatives? Which ingredient in the box mix gives it a noticeable chemical taste?

I actually find that brownies are the only thing that I can eat from a mix and like, so this doesn't surprise me (I do usually dump half a bag of chocolate chips into them, however! ). All I know is that when I used boxed cake mixes for the kindergarten heathens and washed the dishes it took forever to get the gummy mess off the pans and beaters, etc. Scratch cakes don't take as long to clean up. That's because of the gums and other things they have to put into mixes to give the consumer a consistent result.

Cakes and brownies are different animals...I can't say for sure because I don't have a mix in front of me, but if you compare those you'll probably find more differences. Cake mixes are made so that the average whoever can dump the ingredients in a bowl and mix them up for a consistent result. They wouldn't be able to stay in business if they were selling a product that didn't result in the same product each time. IMO, the result is a gummier texture and a blander flavor, which is probably why people dress the mixes up by adding other stuff. I prefer scratch to avoid the gummy texture of the finished cake.

And k8memphis, I think that most Americans have palates of cardboard, so you're right that people probably can't tell the difference. Since mixes for a lot of things came out in the 60's and 70's, most adults haven't grown up knowing the difference, because they just don't know there is an option. When the standard of a birthday cake is Walmart and Costco it's a sad thing, but people actually think that it's the standard. My neighbor just finished telling me about this "delicious" Walmart cake they got for a party...

Oh believe you me, having a cardboard palate is definately NOT an American exclusivity. Cardboard palates are everywhere..... every nationality, skin color, social class, religion....

Hi everyone...

k8: it looks like industries are getting away from using the BHT in the packaging. But you are right -- you do see it marked on cereal boxes, etc.

http://www.allbusiness.com/manufacturing/plastics-rubber-products-manufacturing/314651-1.html


Anyway...here's something on colorings (which I know is in DH yellow cake mix, ergo, under NYS law, must go on our box too):

http://chemistry.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/%7Elrd/foodaddi.html


Q. Does FD&C Yellow No.5 cause allergic reactions?

A. FD&C Yellow No.5, or tartrazine, is used to color beverages, desert powders, candy ice cream, custards and other foods. The color additive may cause hives in fewer than one out of 10,000 people. By law, whenever the color is added to foods or taken internally, it must be listed on the label. This allows the small portion of people who may be sensitive to FD&C Yellow No.5 to avoid it.

So...yes, if someone can be allergic, all the more reason to mention it. Wilton has an easy to print out list of all of it's colorings I use

Here's a quote which I think sums it up:

"If you have a food allergy, you really have to alter your life," Tollefson says. "You have to really read labels, and really be careful about what you eat."

see: http://chemistry.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/%7Edms/wh%2Dalrg1.html

Please, I am not saying use a mix, or do scratch ... I am just trying to point out the legal, ethical, and good business reasons to be as clear as we can about labeling. For me (as I wrote earlier) I found myself looking for "simpler" products, because it seemed less typing (and less liability) for me.

Hope we're all ok with this.

Okay, I can go with that, palates of cardboard are a worldwide phenomena. I just like seeing the little light that comes on when people try a well-baked scratch cake with IMBC on it instead of the crisco buttercream (or should I say But'R'Creme, liek they spell it at Sam's Club?) Although I will say that I do offer both crisco buttercream and the IMBC since that's a personal preference thing and some people just want to eat those sweet globs of crisco-ey goodness (?)

Hey, by the way chutzpah, where have you been lately? I haven't seen as many of your posts lately. I've been working, myself, but now June wedding hell is over, yay!

Duncan Hines like I mentioned recently here somewhere was a real dude. He was like a one man Consumer Reports for eating establishments at the time and he published restaurant guides and eventually went into marketing products that he endorsed. The public held him in high regard because he was a man of his word. If Duncan Hines endorsed a product it was golden y'know? It would be like a huge endorsement for him to shine his light on you and he was upright about it.

Duncan Hines cake mix hit the market in 1951.

Isn't that interesting how his name was synonymous with excellence and how his product is considered by some today?

Halloooo costumeczar.... we were in Michigan for eight days and got home on late on tues, then it was up early on wednesday for work and non-stop since then.... blah. I need a vaca from my vaca.