if someone came into your shop and offered to work for free?

i mean what would be the pay off for them?

when i painted for a living...i taught a few people my secrets...and created my own competetion.

NOT GOING DOWN THAT ROAD AGAIN!

oh yeah...someone came in today and offered to work for free.....an adult.

I would be wary of that. Nothing is free. I can't imagine someone offering to work for nothing without having an ulterior motive. I would just tell them thanks, but that's just not the way you do business.

Good luck.

Michele

Taking on an aprentice is how it gets done in Europe! But this is not Europe..lol

I was talking to a owner of a bakery by you and I was telling him that I was thinking about going to pastry school. He told me I should see if I could go work for free in a bakery . That was how he got started in the business. He said instead of paying for the school work for free.

I was wondering the same thing about apprenticeships. But I doubt anyone here would want to give me one. Oh well, I'll get an "apprenticeship" after my pastry school training.

Would anyone here like for moi to be their apprentice?

Maybe it means they want to learn while they work?

You could make them sign a non-competitorship agreement. Like for 5 years after leaving your establishment as a free employee, they wouldn't free enterprise/work in a competitive trade within like 20 miles of your business (no matter if you moved) or you were free to charge them such and such per week for such a violation of trust type clause. I've done that in a business I used to own. Worked like a charm.

--Knox--

You can get some liability insurance or have them get some..also.


you can go to the local VOTECH schools and get non paid intern.

I am so going to do that...but I need to get my last project in..

I can get one for 11 weeks...!

but since most of the kids are from someplace else I have no problem with that...as after their 11 weeks they go home.

They can be paid or not paid for the term of their internship, but they get school credits.

Isn't that wonderful??

i suspect they can't just volunteer, really. Except for approved intern programs and similar, you could be liable for paying at least minimum wage, even if they insist they want to work for free. I'd consult an employment atty in your area.

I live by a wonderful bakery called Let Them Eat Cake. The owners have been on the Food Network Challenges and do very high end cakes.

I stopped by one day and spoke to the owner. I asked him a few questions on how to do a painted candy mold. He was SO nice. He told me to bring my stuff in and he would show me and not only that but I could do them at his shop.

I had a blast watching everyone work. I asked if he ever needed some help for free I would be happy to help out. Just so I could hang out there and learn from a top notch decorator.

He said he does have several people come in to help him for free. Many are going to school and want to practice and many just want to pick up tips and ideas like I did. He asked me to give him my name and phone number and when he needed someone he would call.

Well stupid me, I never did leave my info so I never went back. But I do have a friend who goes there all the time.

This bakery does cakes that cost over $1000 and has many big company clients. I guess they feel like that most people could learn everything and still not be a threat. Since they are very well known people go to them for who they are. Sort of like Duff or Colette Peters.

Now I've got myself thinking I should give them a call again and give my number. Not that I want to open a business but it is So fun to be around cake people and to learn from some of the best for free is a great deal.

i think she is just trying to pick up something she probably means well and doesn't realize it looks bad is like asking the mechanic to let me watch him change my car's oil if you need help hire someone who knows how to decorate cakes and meets your expectations i think you would be asking for all kinds of trouble by agreeing to do this

I did this at one time.. I offered to be an apprectice to the Head Pastry Chef at the Fairmount Hotel in the San Francisco bay area.. The Pastry Chef was very happy and really wanted to do it, but there were union issues and he did not want to create a problem with them since all big hotel workers are unionize in our area. But that would have been a great experience, and I would never try and compete with the Head Pastry Chef in a grand hotel.

If I was in your shoes, I would be very skeptical. But that's up to you and how you feel about it.

I can't obviously speak for the motives of the lady wanting to work for you for free, but a few months ago I was tempted to ask at my local decorating store if I could work for free a few hours a week, as I have not been in good health of late but have good days and bad and thought if I could just go in on my good days, and because I was going in for free the problem of not turning up one day if I was'nt well would not have been a problem, I would have loved it just to be in the enviroment...not to just decorate cakes with her, I would have loved it just as much being in the store helping selling cake equipment and talking "cake" with customers and making the coffee even....but sadly I was to afraid to ask because of the reason you are all discussing...she probably thought I had an ulterior motive (it's only a small shop) and I as I go there often for my supplies I did'nt want to spoil the friendliness I recieve when I go in if she took my proposal as a means to "take away business" from her, and now after reading the thread I can understand why It can look suspiscious and so I will never approach her to ask her about working for free.

Holy cynicism, Batman!

It's called doing a "stage" and cooks do it all the time. It's a major part of how we learn, going from one restaurant or venue to the next.

It's usually 2 weeks or so, unpaid. The "payment" is your training under each chef. You work in various departments of the kitchen under the different chefs/cooks to determine where you'd like to train (sauces, pastry, garde manger, etc.) OR you work in a specific department (pastry only). It's an amazing way of "getting your feet wet" and seeing if that really is the career for you.

When I first started out as a cook, I didn't choose to go to cooking school until I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I started out at a few restaurants in Toronto for 2 week stages, realized I preferred the Pastry Dept. best, then tried my hand at chocolate & breads under different chefs before I found cakes as my favourite work.

Doing an apprenticeship is one step up from a stage. It's a longer term and is generally paid. (Of the apprentice cooks I've worked with, all were paid.)

Since then, over the years, I've worked with a dozen or so cooks who are just starting out and want to work beside you for a few shifts, to see if it's really for them or not.

denise4, don't let that spoil it for you. I would instead approach it in another way. tell her you have good days and bad days, and you love cake. be honest with her. tell her you would love to "help" her, just so you can get out of the house. maybe she will agree, and you would have so much fun. think about it.

as to the original post, If she comes back, I would ask more questions before saying yes or no. maybe she is on welfare, and they require her to get some sort of training or maybe she has to volunteer somewhere to get her benifets...you never know. but then again, maybe she wants to know everything you know so she can open up a place across the street. who knows? I would ask lots of questions before deciding either way.

just my two cents.

melody

Thanks for that melody, maybe one day I will pluck up the courage, like you said "it's the way you ask" will be the way forward...I will certainly think of the approach if I do

It seems to me that people are a little too greedy with their talent. I come from a field where the ONLY way to learn AND get respect is to apprentice. No one cares if you are a college grad (even if the degree is in your field), they want to see your work and know who you worked for/who you know. The whole field would die if people suddenly stopped showing tricks of the trade to people who are interested. Some won't show tricks to just anyone, but most will because they feel that you'll probably soon realize that you can't do it, even with the tricks, and that is why you pay them and decide you want to keep it that way. Yes, when you start, you pay your dues, start at THE lowest possible spot and work up, but they are still willing to teach you.

I think the reason for this is that your success is based on natural born talent. You can only learn so much, but if you have no ability you won't succeed. We always say people who can do are not afraid to help anyone, people who are just imitating are afraid you may get better than them....

Please don't take offense to this post, but I think that this business seems like it could be some people's dream, and if you don't help them learn (and get help in return) than you are just smashing their dream, don't you remember how you learned? Trial and error and I'm sure you had a few mentors along the way too!

I was considering doing this to a local bakery in my area. This is my reasoning. I love doing cakes, but I hate making a huge mess in my kitchen to clean up....and spending alot of money on ingredients. If I worked in a bakery I could just enjoy decorating while gaining experience and not have to do all the dirty work (in my dreams) because hopefully they would allow me to decorate some cakes while their paid workers just cleaned up and took care of customers. Anyways, I haven't asked yet because I have 2 kids to take care of and my husband thinks this is crazy. Also this bakery has a reputation of having awful tasting cakes even though they are pretty. That is a problem with me. If it looks great it should taste great or just go learn to paint a picture instead.

JoanneK

that's so right on the money..it doesn't matter who you train...because they unless they are super talented or just incredibly gifted they are not going to surpass you and if you have loyal clients they will not leave you.

If you have ones that are looking for deals, they are going to be unhappy no matter what you do for them..

I say...Sugar is a living, breathing art form that needs to be passed down, over and to other people.

Horselady, you wise, wise woman. Well thought out and well written.

I think you are my new hero.

Great thread. I was going to start something like this but asking how you made sure that your employees didn't get good enough to the point where they could become competition.

Do you all train your employees THAT well or just teach them a few tricks and have each of them focus on a certain style/technique/decoration?

Ok this is kinda off the beatin path a bit but.............................................
2 years ago I had this lady come into my shop that had seen one of my cakes and wanted to find me blah blah...............................
We talked for about a half an hour and she played with my daughter(we talked about a whole lot of nothing just BS)anyways she left and came back in the next day with this folder in her hand and asked me to take a look when I got the chance. I was like "O God what is she trying to sell", And shoved the book under the counter.Well when i was cleaning up later on that day I found the book,well let me just tell you.......................

She had went home that night put this scrap book together how she invisioned my shop (how it should look) and wanted to know if she could come in and redecorate my shop for FREE!
I'm like is the woman off her rocker.......whats the catch?????????????????

She had put so much time and detail in this scrapbook that I had to call this crazy lady................................................to make a really lonnnnnng story short i let her come in and do it............there was no catch...............she isnt crazy.............................and it was absolutly free!! And best of all I have made this fantastic friend!!!!!

So now she is in charge of the way Something Sweet should look................and let me just tell you it is truly SOMETHING SWEET!!!!

So my point is sometimes its a good thing to take a chance on someone or something!!!

Horselady - way to go! Very well put! Same to Antonia74!

I've been on both ends of this situation - some good, some not!

There is nothing wrong with someone wanting to train/work with you and not be paid - that is what artisans to do learn - there is only so much you can learn on your own and from a book - eventually you need some other experience and teaching. A perfect way to go about it is to have a stage at an establishment or become an apprentice. You do not have to attend some school for this industry, although you may want to.
If you are so worried about the situation, you can question them some more, have them signed a confidentiality agreement, and limit their exposure.

But really people - why the heck are hiding things? It's not like we are developing nuclear weapons or something - its CAKE! Sure we all have our "secrets" our "tricks" our ways of doing things, but really, at one point, someone TAUGHT us those tricks! We got them either in person, from a book, or perhaps from this forum. I truly do not believe there are any trade secrets in cake decorating, although I've been told otherwise.

I myself would love the opportunity to work in someones shop, paid or free! I would love to have a chance to decorate more and improve my skills while learning new things from someone more advanced then me. I'd talk to her more about it and then think about it a bit more, then decide.

When I finished school one of the requirements to graduate was to do a 360hr externship at a restaurant. To be completed within 6 weeks. Paid or unpaid you had to do it and fax in a sheet with the bosses signature and what you did along with your hours. They make us do that because they said there is only so much the school can teach you. You have to go out and get real world hands on experience.

I can honestly say that that lady had guts to ask because I had the hardest time trying to find a place because I was so nervous and scared, all the places I walked into and asked, made up excuses, i.e. insurance, no pay, no room. If I tried to rebut with the school covering me with their own insurance then they made up another excuse. It was hard. I'm pretty introverted and just about gave up. In the end MY MOM found me a place 2 days before I would be required to start. They loved me so much I still work there. I learn from the head chef and I show him a few things. We help each other out in our field and 2 heads are better than one when it comes to creating things. Who knows, maybe something your struggling to master may come easy to them and they can help you.

One last thing one of my chefs said at school when they were asked what's one major difference between a chef and a cook. He said, A chef teaches others the knowledge that they have learned over the years, while a cook just uses it.