sorry bout the double post earlier. Have no idea how that happened........

... giving discounts to the church for my cakes. I do it as both a courtesy to them, as a donation, and to the Glory of God...

Let it go to God. *HE* will cause men to give back to you. Others have had good comments in this vein.
I also ? the figure of $250 for ingredients - even w/purchasing a new pan.
Please pray for peace about this and listen for God to speak to you thru you heart.

whoa nelly! my poor heart skipped a beat after the noah's ark cake thing.

i took some really cute mummy cookies to church last week and all the old church ladies (picture lots of costume jewelry) said "Oh, gingerbread men!"
sorry-really nothing to do with huge fancy cake but some of those church ladies will gitcha!

I agree that work done for God can bring rewards. However it is, "work done with a willing heart". Donating a cake with resentment just won't work. I would never make a cake and expect part of it to be a donation and get paid for part of it. I think I would ask for full pay and hand however much I felt comfortable back to them, and say, Here is my donation.
I also don't understand the price of magic line cake pans being a part of the cake expense. If I planned to make only that one cake with the pans, I would rent pans.
I also think that cake decorators often want to be the center of attention and feel they have to bring a cake which will turn all conversation on them. Sometimes all the people want is a simple cake to serve.
There are people who donate lots of hours to a Church, cooking, cleaning, organizing, .... I personally would rather spend a day baking a cake and decorating it than to do those things. If I didn't want to donate though, I would tell them no. I wouldn't try to figure out what I would be getting from it.

A donation of $50 towards the cost of the anniversary party is cheaper... now, repeat that 7 times 7 times 7 times...

We all have our stories with the why we never donate cakes to the church anymore. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me! The first time was donating 10 boxes of cupcakes for "advertising" that was NEVER done in the bulletin, the second time was for a going away party for our priest where the cake wasn't cut and pretty much went straight into the trash without so much as a Thank You. The thing is, from reading your original post your churchlady coordinator has NO FREAK'N CLUE that their budget isn't big enough to purchase Walmart filled Sheet Cakes to feed that many people.

O.k. what you're going to do since you're stuck making the cake for this event (even though in the future WHAT are we going to say!! - "$50 is cheaper than having to go through the headache of making something that I'm not going to get reimbursed on")... You're still going to use that 14" pan and the 12" pan... You're just going to make them into undecorated kitchen cakes... That's right, basic double-layers and just rough ice them. Then, you're going to scale down that centerpiece cake to make it less work for you. Beggers can't be choosers!!!! Honestly, I'd rough ice the whole thing, stack it, then plunk some flowers on there with a gold plastic cross or 50th anniversary monogram pick. They're paying you peanuts, and as much as you want to do the upscale cake, sometimes it's best to really just do the basic cake with the rough icing and some flowers plunked into it because you know in your heart that the next event to come along they're going to expect the same fancy cake out of you for peanuts on the dollar. The Walmart baker is going to be paid more to do this cake than you are as a member of this parish and their cake is coming straight out of the freezer.

You can be assurred that the caterer and florist for this thing aren't taking a pay cut for their work, WHY SHOULD YOU!?!?!?!?!? Maybe even call your Sam's bakery and order in a box of the frozen cakes and just ice/fill them.

As for those questioning the $250... I think it's TOTALLY realistic of a figure!!! It costs me $89/100-150 guests for ingredients alone (down to the paper towel and dish soap). Add to that two pans and she's barely going to cover her expenses. Cut your losses, as much as you want to make the fancy cake, do the cake that they can afford because you'll be paying for it in cheap budget cakes later on.

A long time ago when I was starting my business, my pastor sat down with me in his church office. He offered these words of advice, "Don't look to or depend on the church or its members to advance your business and God will always bless you."

I learned very quickly from that to look elsewhere, today I do donate to my church but after reading the passage that tells us this;

"When you do it (what IT will be) to the least of these it is as if you do it unto me (Refering to the Lord)" I think it can work both ways.

you are a wise woman auntginn.

God knows how to pay us back thru other channels, if you give to the church....it's not supposed to be from the church.

can i testify my dear sistas?

this month i'm making roughly 1200 cookies to help feed the cast and crew at our church for this month long shingding they are doing for a community outreach(long story).

can i tell you, today,(on wednesdays i hardly get any calls)....the phone rang so much (for orders), i could barely get my 300 cookies baked today for this week....and i know it's not just a coincidence....God did it....none of the customers were church members.

my vote is if it bothers you, make them a 250.00 cake, what stopping you from downgrading?...i do it all the time if the customers budget won't allow for an expensive cake.

you really can't count the pans, you'll use them again, if not, return them to the store.

you'll get another chance to make a fancy cake...after you been in the biz awhile this kinda stuff doesn't bother you as much....ya just roll with it.

My thought is that if you approached her about doing the cake, and she told you their budget was tight for dessert, why would come up with an idea that was so elaborate and give them an invoice for over $500? To me, that doesn't fit into what she even told you was a tight budget. I don't understand why you were surprised that she offered $250. To me, that doesn't even fit into a tight budget! Ifyou are going to be resentful about it, then don't do it. Tell them you can do sheets and charge what you feel is appropriate. I did a 3 tier, very nice cake for our VBS this summer, and didn't take a penny for it. I approached her about doing the cake, and she told me they didn't have much in hte budget for it. I didn't care, and had an idea that I really wanted to do, so I did it, and didn't charge a dime for it! She was thankful, and I got a nice pic for my website. During that 8 day period of the week I did the free cake for church, I had over $700 in orders! My biggest week yet! I donated it with a happy heart, everyone went nuts over the cake, I got to feel good about donating it, and I ended up having my best week of orders! God is amazing!

The price of a fancy extravagant cake doenst fit into their budget. I think you want the fancy cake more than they do. I think you need to come up with something that fits both of your needs (probably sheet cakes). If you want to do the cake you have envisioned, then you will be getting experience, and exposure.

I'm not going to repeat much of what many have said already.

But......

I do want to ad, the elaborate cake, torted layers and fancy schmacy was your idea and was done to show case YOUR work and build YOUR portfolio. I really raised an eyebrow at the *I"m NOT doing sheetcakes* comment. Your choice, your expense if you decide to to more.

I would be happy to do it for $1. per serving (or whatever it worked out to be) considering it was:

1. For a church celebration
2. To promote my business

....and cake pans are not an ingredient cost, they're like a fridge, oven or spatula, just part of doing business.

I think a lot of my feelings come from the fact that my church is very small, very small congregation and brings in very little money. Personally, I would donate a cake in a minute. I know the time and effort it takes for a cake is equal to the people that work these events, who in my case, are often seniors, are often on their feet over 10 hours cooking, cleaning, serving, etc. and do so completely without pay. Why would I be different? I know there are lots of churchs with huge budgets that pay people for everything--so that kind of makes me see your point. But if they told you ahead that the budget was small, and you have elaborate plans, that's more your choice. They would probably be happy with a Sam's Club cake and pay little for it. If you are expecting business from this, and you want to add to your portfolio, then do as you wish, make it grand and beautiful, but don't expect more for it. If it were me, and I could make something so beautiful, I would donate it. Every pan I have (lots!) I bought myself, I have never been paid for a cake. I wouldn't expect people to pay for pans, as thats something I'll have forever. I enjoy decorating for the love of it and I tend to go overboard just to learn and get experience. But those are my choices. I would love to see your cake if you post it. Just remember--the talent you have been blessed with (that not all of us have--just see my pics! ) you were given by God and therefore it doesn't hurt to use it for free.

Have you considered doing a dummy for the "showpiece" and sheetcakes for the kitchen? You can still have all of your flavors and fillings, and you'll be able to have your beautiful four tier masterpiece to show off forever! The cost might not go down very much, but that would make the cake an investment, as much as those pans are an investment.

Ok I have to say a few things on this.... Everyone is saying how it should be given to the church because it's the church.... well let me explain my most recent encounter with a church and the exact reason I no longer go to church...

My best friend's, sister's husband's, grand father... got it? Ok... he passed away, they were very big in the church, attending services 4 times a week, donating time, food, money, etc. etc. etc. When he passed away the church came to THEM and TOLD them they were going to have a buffet for after the funeral services and everyone was invited back to the church for the buffet. Sounds like they are donating this to the family who just put out well over $5k on funeral expenses right? Well I made a cake for them free of charge as my way of thanking them for letting this man into my life and my family's lives, he was such a dear man and he is missed terribly, anyway, I donated the cake to the buffet luncheon thing and everyone said how wonderful and nice and pretty and yummy it was. Fast forward 2 weeks, the family gets a bill in the mail from the church charging her $650.00 for the buffet. It wasn't all that nice either. It was just a few things throw together, yes someone made individual cheesecakes in cupcake liners but it was a no bake cheesecake and canned fruit toppin.... pre-packaged foods and cut corners all the way around. The family even stayed behind to clean up, the food, which normally gets sent home with the family at such functions so they can continue to grieve and not worry about cooking, was quickly locked away in the fridge for the church people to take home. That was the last time they attended that church.

The way I see it is this... SOME churches are only out for hand outs. Hense the reason of the collection plates being passed around every single time they hold service. They ask for donations and have pot lucks all the time where the people that attend the church bring all the food all they do is supply the facility where you're gathering. And again the collection plates are passed out at both the quick service held before dinner and again before dessert is served.

Every church I've ever attended has been like this....

I understand you want the cake for your portfolio, however, since they are having the whole deal catered why not just give them what they are paying for? They're paying $250.00 for the cake(s) why not just give them that? You can always make a dummy cake all extravagant for your website/portfolio.... Or you can just eat the costs of it all and go for the gusto and end up regreating it for a while because someone isn't as nice and thankful and happy about it as you are. I just have this feeling you're going to back here in a few weeks saying how no one liked it or gushed over it and you didn't get any additional orders out of it or every order you got was for an elaborate cake and they wanted to pay next to nothing for it....

Makes me glad I'm an atheist! It's bad enough when ordinary customers try to barter on your prices, but it seems so many people feel obliged to give huge discounts just because it's their church. I have no problem with people choosing to believe what they want to believe in, or not, but I agree with txkat that you arer feeding people, not 'God'.

I honestly didn't mean to offend anyone with my post. This church I'm speaking of, does have expenses yes, just like any other building in this world... But what I don't understand is how, like you say the pastors get very little for their "job", and yet the pastor at this church bought a brand new vehicle, 2 for his wife, 1 for his daughter, and built a brand new house on like 20 acs.

All this was done in about 1 years time not over the course of many years but back to back to back. No one else in the household is employeed so his "tiny bit" is all they have to live on. They also built a new church a few years prior to this and then took up ad space asking for donations to finish the new church because they couldn't afford to do so and as luck would have it, the church has yet to be finished, but his new house was with-in 2 weeks of reaching the max needed thingie on the sign....

I understand my views are mine alone here, but I think some people need to see the other side of the coin here, that not ALL churches and not ALL pastors and such are the same.. there are some out there that do rip people off and yes it is sad that this is happening but it happens more often then people see or want to believe.

The church I was forced to attend when I was a child, just recently rebuilt a huge church plus a huge pastors house on the same property, the house cost as much to build as the church did. The house is the private residence of the head pastor dude person at the church... I don't understand it... I guess I just don't want to understand or maybe it just doesn't seem right to me that in MY town... there are so many people that are homeless and so many that are struggling and so many that have little or nothing, they go to a church for help and guidence and get nothing at all, not even an old holey blanket for their child to wrap up in... and then they build a mansion for the priest.... it's a huge slap in the face to everyone in our community that has ever needed assistance and asked for help from them.

Also I'm sure someone is going to get onto the whole "good enough to ask for help but not good enough to attend every week" thing.... When someone in our town needs assistance the first place they turn is Social services, they are then told "well you'll have to wait a month to see if you are approved for food assistance and emergency housing assistance so go visit such and such churches and see if they can help you, they always have loads of stuff on hand to help people for free no donation required" so you see in my area we are told to go to them for help, we are then turned away from them because of the color of our skin, or our looks, or some other reasons.... then later we're asked to help improve things by donating to them....

I just don't get it... but this'll be my last post here as I can see things are getting heated because of me so I'll stop now. Sorry if I offended anyone I did not intend to do so.

church relationships can get really sticky/touchy....

but I just wanted to add that the earlier posts made me
I just donated cakes, cookies, and cupcakes to my church's bake sale at their annual festival.

been a member 9 years and have never been to the festival so I didn't know what to expect, but with the passion and talent God gave me for baking, I thought I should do something....
so I brought my cookies and cupcakes in, and noticed a sign saying "cake $1," woah? oh, slice for a dollar - they were cutting up the cakes
oh well, I thought, my cakes will still look nice cut up in wedges. we came back later the next evening after dropping off two cakes and noticed one cake was still there intact.
my husband inquired about the cake and the lady said it was sold whole. I thought that was nice, however, it was sold for a whopping $10.
now it wasn't a large cake... 6" (4" high) pumpkin spice with buttercream, MMF stripes and gumpaste daisies all the way around... but I would have charged $30.
I just smiled and shugged, but here's the cute part... my Mother-in-Law was visiting and saw me work on the cakes for hours (and thought they were pretty too - she took cookies home to show her friends) and was pretty surprised that they charged so little. she told me that she helps run and bakes for charity bake sales at work (dept store). they all bake and buy stuff from each other and the money goes to charity (breast cancer, lately I think) - but she said that they charge full price - more money for the charity!!!
I just did it for practice and to earn the church money, but really they should charge a bit more - I think they'd get it, and more money for them!

oh well, live and learn,

I'm just going to be devil's advocate here for a minute.

People who live most of their lives on a traditionally low income learn very quickly how to budget and spend money well. It's simple economics that those who live on a low income BUT live debt free appear to have more money than others who may make two or three times as much but have a large load of debt to service.

Just a friendly note to remind us all that not everything is how it appears.

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I had an aunt and uncle who were both Quaker ministers. I think it's safe to say they lived their entire life under the poverty level and they raised 5 kids doing it. Their home was not only their home, but it was the church office, it was the place where church meetings were held, it was the place parishoners came when they needed council. A minister's home is more than a home....it is an extension of the church.

Churches and ministers are just like the rest of the world. There are both sides to every group of people. For the churches and ministers who are money grubbing there is the minister who works a full time job as a social worker and still makes time to come to church and help people out. Just because a person is a minister or a place is a church doesn't make it any less human and suseptible to those issues. Too many times people place ministers on a pedestal with out taking in to account they are human. As far as the cake, I say make what is within the money they have allotted.

well, not all churches are the same, it is grievious to see the widows mite spent on foolish things,but these people will have to answer to God who really takes these things seriously.

i go to a large church, that takes in alot of money...but a huge part of it goes to outreach...things cost money....in order to tell people about Jesus you gotta spend some cash.

i don't think i've ever seen my pastor in a suit....when he went to haiti to see about our church drilling some wells to get the people some fresh water so they could live, he was so moved by the extreme poverty there, he gave them what stuff he had and got on the airplane in bare feet, cause he gave one guy there his shoes.

i know he's not perfect, no one but Jesus is, but he is someone i can follow cause i'm all about helping people too....i think finding the right church for you is like finding the right mate....you gotta keep trying to find one till one "fits"....

if you think about it...the people who Jesus was most against while he was here, was the organised religon....those crazy pharisees.

Make the beautiful disply cake you wanted to make as a dummy cake. No need to buy pans and you will have it for showing off forever. Then let them serve whatever (easy to serve sheet cakes) with the budget for the $250. Yours will still be on display and go home with you.

If you have ever read any of my posts you will know that I don't EVER charge enough money for my cakes. But, I don't do this for a living and I only do about 20-25 cake a year IF that many.

However, when I do cakes for my church (one this weekend in fact) I don't charge. They offer to pay me.....MY price...not just cost. But, I choose not to do that.

An earlier poster said "God doesn't eat cake"...RIGHT! But, I believe that HE gave me this gift and this is one way that I choose to "serve".

This is going to be an expensive cake for you to make and I can certainly understand your needing to have these costs reimbursed. I also understand that you deserve to be paid what you choose to charge. Just look at it like you are volunteering your time (like working in the nursery). I do.

I think you have a good attitude about this and you will be blessed for it!

Beth in KY

I worked as Children's Ministries Pastor in a small church in California years back.

He wasn't paid much but he invested well. IRA's, Stocks, 401k's etc. He knew how to buy low, sell high and reinvest the profits. He had two preteens at the time & knew they would need cars, college funds etc & that his pastor's salary couldn't afford it all.

He didn't share his finances or purchases on his profitable sell outs. It wasn't our business as his congregation. We knew his patorial salary since it was published in annual reports and what he chose to do with that pay was not out business.

Maybe this pastor who bought 3 cars in a year and built a nice home saved privately for years to be able to do this??

I am always so sad when I read of a situation like OhMyGoodies describes, unfortunately the basic truth is that not everybody who claims to be a Christian is one, pastors included. From they way he acts, I believe my uncle became a pastor so people would think well of him and do things for him. I have never met anybody else who thinks that you should give them something just because they asked you for it. Sadly, there are many people throughout history who have used the Church and twistd Biblical teaching to satisfy their own desires.