Churches Not Very Nice! (Rant) & Adviseplease

Business By cocorum21 Updated 12 Dec 2006 , 1:43pm by SweetConfectionsChef

cocorum21 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cocorum21 Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 3:09pm
post #1 of 31

Has anyone else encountered this problem? I called a few churches and the people I talked to act in debelief that I am actually asking to rent their kitchen. Then I get the attitude. I know for a fact that one of these kitchen let someone else start her business there that is why I called. All of the churches I called I was refered by either a member or another church member that knows the secetary at that church.

I'm not asking for people to kiss my @#$% just not be so grouchy. Maybe I'm too sensitive.

Here is my last coversation with the church I just called:

She answers: hello ABC Church.

I say: Hi, I need to speak to someone about renting the church kitchen.

She says: (sigh)For what?

I say: I'm starting a small cake and cookie business and I would like to rent your kitchen.

She says: we don't do that here.(insert change in voice to annoyed)

I say: Ok, well thank you.

But before I even got to get the thank you out of my mouth she hung up. And this has been pretty much the story of all the churches I've called. Except one! and that person My neighbor gave me her home # and when I called her she was the most delightful person! She went out of her way to give me a couple of #'s of churches that she knows the has commercial kitchens and the one that rented their kitchen to another small business. She said they didn't rent their kitchen for that sort of thing because they didn't carry the liability insurance for it but if it didn't work out with the other churches to call back as speak to the pastor.

What am I doing wrong? Is my aproach just bad? Should I just ask to speak to the pastor of each church directly? I just don't get it I'm not asking for a hand out. Would I have to be a member of the church? Or maybe they just get so many calls about this kind of thing that they are just annoyed easily?

I want to start this business legally with little overhead so I can grow. I really don't want to have to go out and buy equipment and rent space just starting out. I'm really afraid at getting caught doing it out of my house. Any advise would be helpful.

30 replies
Firstlady Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Firstlady Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 3:19pm
post #2 of 31

I'm so sorry that Christians have treated you in this manner. I would phone the church and ask to speak to the following people in this order:
Head of the Trustee Ministry
Asst. Pastor
Pastor

Explain that you would pay for the extra insurance and make sure you have a busines plan and hours you would be using the church. Request to have a meeting with them so that you can get the feel for them. Good Luck

calvarykari Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
calvarykari Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 3:23pm
post #3 of 31

I am sorry that you had bad experiences dealing with some churches, just don't be too quick to judge everyone. I used to be on staff at a church and actually was the one awnsering the phone. I do not know the area you are in but if you are familiar with churches in your area look for ones that are new (need income) or are smaller. I would not bother with the pastor, you probably would not get him on the phone anyway. Most pastors screen their calls. Try emailing the churches as well. That way you do not have to deal with rude people. I think churches would be hesitant to lease out to someone that was not a member, they do not know you and need to protect themselves. I would ask friends to contact their church for you, a member might have more pull then you. If this avenue is not open for you perhaps a daycare or nursing home kitchen on off hours would work. Best of luck!

rezzygirl Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
rezzygirl Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 3:24pm
post #4 of 31

Perhaps a softer approach would be better:
Start with an introduction: Hello my name is _____. May I speak with someone regarding your kitchen facilities?
then something like this....
I have a cake business in the area and I was wondering if I could possible arrange to use your kitchen in exchange for rent or monetary donation?

Be very friendly and polite because churches get a lot of solicitors calling, especially around this time of year. If you sound "all business" at the beginning they may think you are a solicitor and put their guard up!

HTH

-Rezzy

aobodessa Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
aobodessa Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 3:38pm
post #5 of 31

Rezzy's got a great idea here. I would also like to add that you might ask to set up a face-to-face meeting with the person or persons who would be instrumental in making the decision on your request. Then make sure to take in samples of what you do so they can see the quality product that will be coming out of their facility. It may even get you additional business in the long run!

Good luck and keep us posted!

Odessa

cocorum21 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cocorum21 Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 3:45pm
post #6 of 31

rezzycakes, I'll try that approach, it does sound really professional. I guess when I was calling I just wanted to get right to the point and not take up their time. I guess I'll wait a week and call again

believe me I'm not judging every church the same but after 6 phone calls to churches and one that was really quite rude it's just hard to believe.

AmyKay Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
AmyKay Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 3:55pm
post #7 of 31

Hi icon_smile.gif I would suggest too maybe mentioning that you had been refered to them and by who. That way they know you are not calling out of the blue, you have done your research, and someone has recommended them to you.

Rooh Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Rooh Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 3:59pm
post #8 of 31

Keep us posted on the outcome of this. I too have been beating the bushes out there trying to find a kitchen to rent with no luck. It is very frustrating to say the least.

I have also checked into get "my own" spot and right now that isn't an option for me either. The rents are to high for one thing ($15+ per sq foot) and then having the build out ($80K +) and we haven't even gotten to the equipment ($60k+). That doesn't even cover any operating expenses. That is just to get the building, having the kitchen made in the "LEASED" building, and putting the equipment in.

Then to get a "Start-up" buisness loan - they look at you like you are nuts. (LOL - which we are) I don't know what else to do. I want to do things the right way - I'm trying, but right now I don't see how I can.

cocorum21 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cocorum21 Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 4:08pm
post #9 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyKay

Hi icon_smile.gif I would suggest too maybe mentioning that you had been refered to them and by who. That way they know you are not calling out of the blue, you have done your research, and someone has recommended them to you.





Actually the really rude person that I talked to, my friend called for me to let them know I would be calling. She is a member of the church and her two children attend their school. When I called she pretty much barked at me about how someone(my friend) just called and they don't do that kinda thing. That was the end of that coversation.

sweetviolent Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
sweetviolent Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 4:16pm
post #10 of 31

i dont know where you are from- but here when can also use a facility like a fire department kitchen- also they need to know that it is you that carries the liability not them ( at least thats the way it works here in NY)0- of course that assumes you can get them to talk to you!!!

Good luck I hope you can work it out

loves2bake Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
loves2bake Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 4:16pm
post #11 of 31

I understand your frustration at the lack of help from the local churches, think about it from their side though renting to someone they dont even know. Have you thought about attending one of those churches? Try going to Sunday school a few weeks and get to know the people. Trust would be something that would need to be established..

Cakey Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Cakey Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 4:27pm
post #12 of 31

I have had the same problem!! I thought it was me. My husband volunteered at a church thrift store and spoke to the manager about me renting the church's kitchen. She gave me the pastor's number and said he was really nice and to call him. Well, I did and he never called back. So one day I decided to pop into the church myself since it's just a few blocks from our house. This "really nice" pastor opened the door just a crack looking totally annoyed, and said, "What is it?" I hadn't even said or done anything yet and I already felt like I was the most irritating person in the world to him! I had never met him and he didn't know who I was, so for all he knew I could have been there with a dumptruck full of cash for him. I rushed through my explanation of how I wanted to rent their kitchen, and he couldn't say no fast enough or in enough ways, "We've never done that before, that kind of thing would have to go before the board," etc. I asked him what the possiblity was of him approaching the board about it, and he asked me where I was parked so he could walk me to my car. Talk about the bum's rush! It just made me feel like the biggest zero. Good thing I didn't actually need anything from the church. I'd hate to get that kind of reception as a needy person or someone who was trying to donate money, for that matter! I would have turned around and left as soon as he looked at me annoyed and said, "What is it?" This was way back in the spring, so it's not like they were busy with Christmas donations or anything. I just think there is no excuse, especially from a church, for that chilly of a reception.

bethola Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
bethola Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 4:31pm
post #13 of 31

Well, I need to reply to this one. I AM the person answering the phone at the church! LOLL I serve as the Pastor's Secretary. I hope that can give you a little insight.

I use my church's kitchen because I mostly bake for the church members and I support my church in all areas. However, we have in the past rented to others outside our church family and have not had a good experience. Please do not be offended by this, I am just stating OUR particular situation. We have had food (TUNA) left out on the counters in the summer for DAYS!!! I could smell it from my office in a whole other building! The facility has not been cleaned properly, etc. I know that there are those of you that would say CONTRACT!! Guess what? We HAVE a contract for just those purposes and it is MOST DIFFICULT to enforce. Let's face it....our churches MUST maintain good relationships in our communities (I mean, afterall.....we ARE supposed to be Christians!) but that can sometimes bring a great burden and it is for these reasons that we no longer rent our facilities.

I AM nice on the phone, however, I had a person call me and ask for us to cater an event and when I told her that we didn't do that anymore (we did at one time) she said (most rudely) WHY NOT? Then proceeded to question me on why we wouldn't do her event, etc. I was STILL nice to her, but, well my KNEES got calloused that day! LOLL

This is just another side to the story from someone who has been there and done that. I agree that perhaps you should make an appointment with someone at the church and meet with them. In my case, it's ME. I screen for the Pastor. It is ultimately HIS decision, but 'cha gotta talk to me first!

Good Luck! I hope you can find a way to make this happen.

Beth in KY

Cakey Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Cakey Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 4:35pm
post #14 of 31

I just wanted to add that in both my phone call to the pastor and when I saw him in person, I let him know that my husband was Michael who voluteered at the thrift store. He definitely knew my husband and had spoken to him several times. Apparently, that didn't make a bit of difference to him.

The other thing I want to say is if it's better for me to actually attend that church and get to know the people first before renting the kitchen, what part of the ice-cold reception I got would make me want to be around this pastor or attend this church? don't know anyone that wouldn't be put off by that kind of treatment. I'd rather go to a church that treats me nicely from the beginning instead of me having to "earn" them being nice to me because I've been there 10 Sundays in a row or something.

bethola Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
bethola Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 4:36pm
post #15 of 31

I just reread my post. I need to clarify that by "burden" I mean that people sometimes don't feel it is necessary to honor a contract to the church because, as has been previously stated, we are CHRISTIANS and we won't actually take action. Let's face it.....it IS true! Our community is small and we try to be active in all areas of need. But, renting our facilities doesn't come under that heading, and it IS a burden to try and get people to honor a contract, sometimes.

Just wanted to clarify that we DO help people as we are commissioned to do.

Beth

JoanneK Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
JoanneK Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 4:57pm
post #16 of 31

I don't really think it matters what faith the church is, people are people and we don't know what they are doing when we call. People will be nice and people will be rude. It depends on the day, the mood and well the person in general.

That being said if I was trying to talk a church into letting me rent their kitchen I would bring a cake in and offer it to the Pastor and his staff. Then I would ask to speak to whoever would be in charge of the kitchen.

I think going in person is much better. First of all you get to see the church and decide if you even want to rent there. You also let them see you and how great your cakes are.

It's always much easier to give someone the brush off on the phone. I doubt if most people who answer the phones at the church even has the say so if you can or can not rent the kitchen.

Even if a church has never done so you could explain how it would help the people there with weddings, baptisms and so on.

I know our church has staff that helps with those things and even if you can't rent the kitchen you may be able to get new customers that way.

aobodessa Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
aobodessa Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 10:26pm
post #17 of 31

I used to regularly attend a Catholic church in a nearby town; in fact, my husband was the pianist for nearly 13 years. And, while I would not have thought to use their facility for my business, one of the things that might help these churches is to have a maintenance person contracted who will be available to insure the place is cleaned up. That's what we did.

I know, I know ... just another layer in the whole mess, but it may help for those facilities who have had difficulty with messes being left behind (or those who don't want the hassle of messes being left behind).

Furthermore, I do agree with Cakey: there is really no reason for the minister/pastor/priest to be so incredibly abrupt when answering the door. Perhaps he was in counseling with another parishoner, but that is no excuse. Maybe he was counseling and his secretary had stepped away and couldn't answer the door? If what he had going on behind his door was so important, then he should not have answered the door. After all, she didn't identify herself as the police or fire department, did she????

Yes, I'm trying to add a little wink here and there, but in reality, I have found that kindness begets kindness. And I guess perhaps that is something that is lacking in dealings with the public in general.

In my job as a legal secretary, I answer telephones all day long. There is no need to be rude or abrupt unless the building is burning down. Everything I say on the phone I try to say with a smile on my face because the person on the other end CAN hear it, I am firmly convinced. Even if we cannot assist a caller, that kindness may bring them back with a new case we CAN handle next week or next month. And who knows??? Maybe that next case will be enough for my boss and I to retire on! (don't I wish!!!!!!!)

Please keep trying to find a spot to help you out. Be kind. Someone WILL respond and you will be able to say to one and all "when I was just trying to start out and be legal about everything, this business was kind enough to help me." That one sentence will generate good business for both of you.

Odessa

p.s. Have you contacted local rental halls??? They generally have to have a licensed kitchen and their facilities seem to be unused quite a bit during the week, so maybe that is an avenue you can venture into??? Just a thought .........

homemaluhia Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
homemaluhia Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 10:40pm
post #18 of 31

Keep looking. There are many friendly receptionist/phone answerers out there!

My friend has a small scone and curd business. She rents space from a church that runs it kitchen during the day for it's day school. Her agreement is to utilize the facility after school hours. It works out great for her since she and her husband have full time jobs.

Tomoore Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Tomoore Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 10:51pm
post #19 of 31

This is good info...as I will, too, be reaching out to churches/businesses in a few months to rent kitchens. I agree with the business plan idea...will work on one in the beginning of 07.

In one post, a member mentioned offering to pay for the additional liability insurance. How much can one expect it to be? I'm sure the amounts vary depending upon the different situations, but can you give me a ball park figure. I would hate to offer this up and an astronomical amount be given that I simply cannot swing!!

TJ

pavilioni Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
pavilioni Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 11:07pm
post #20 of 31

I've dealt with churches before in order to rent their space. Some churches have every room occupied all day and all night, while some are not so busy. For internal church use, the room is free and for non-church use, the room is either rented or a donation is provided.

From my experience, the kitchen is not a space that is usually "rented".

Some churches have schools and/or daycare where the kitchen would be used all day, and some only use it for special occasions (funerals, pot lucks, etc).

I'd call back and talk to the Pastor and explain your situation. Good luck.

Cakey Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
Cakey Posted 11 Dec 2006 , 11:39pm
post #21 of 31

Thank you, Odessa, for agreeing with me about that! I just really felt embarrassed like I had ruined his day by being there or something.

goodcakefairy Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
goodcakefairy Posted 12 Dec 2006 , 1:48am
post #22 of 31

I work in a church office, so let me assure you that the lady probably wasn't trying to be rude to you. There probably some underlying elements in her terse response. First, you called in December, the busiest season for a church, so she's probably got a million things going on at once. (Not your fault, you probably didn't know.) Also, church secretaries tend to be wary of non-members who want to use the facilities because we've been burned by people who a) leave a huge mess behind them, expecting the custodial staff to clean it up, b) are really demanding of the church staff, asking a billion questions and making odd requirements such as changing the lightbulbs to a certain wattage. I'm not saying that you were trying to do ANY of those things, but please just understand where the secretary was coming from.

I'm so sorry you were discouraged by the treatment you received. Please keep trying. I'm sure you'll find a kitchen that will suit your needs.

cakesondemand Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cakesondemand Posted 12 Dec 2006 , 4:05am
post #23 of 31

Wow I'm floored by the responses you recieved although it happened in my own church even since I have gone there every Sun for the past 30 yrs. I went elswhere in person no phone calls and spoke to the secetary and after just 2 I found a kitchen. Don't give up there is one out there just keep on knocking when its time it will happen.

peajay66 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
peajay66 Posted 12 Dec 2006 , 4:28am
post #24 of 31

Church secretary has got to be one of the MOST demanding jobs out there! Think about it. In my church the poor gal has not only a Sr. Pastor, Assc. Pastor, DCE, Music Director and Board of Elders to answer to, she has another 1500 congregate members that think she is their beck and call girl. There's not a big enough paycheck in the world that would get me to take that job!

That said, it doesn't excuse anyone from being rude. However, I am guilty of cop-ing a 'tude when I answer the phone and it's been a trying day. I've been brought down a notch several times by people brave enough to say "What have I done to you to derserve this attitude from you?" Makes me stop and realize how pissy I'm being.

Next, if there is one, don't hesitate to politely ask why they feel the need to be so crabby. It might actually help them to know how they're coming across and it lets them know that someone cares enough to ask the "why".

May not help to find a kitchen, but can help you from taking their crabbiness personally.

cakelady Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cakelady Posted 12 Dec 2006 , 4:36am
post #25 of 31

I too am having problems with the churches........I've been told we don't rent to anyone who is "for profit"........anyone run into this situation?

mypastrychef Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
mypastrychef Posted 12 Dec 2006 , 7:11am
post #26 of 31

You can look for an empty building with a commercial kitchen or one can easily be added.

Just think of all the buildings in your town that are hiding a commercial kitchen. You don't have to only try a church.

You don't have to buy new equipment and you can add equipment as your profit grows.

Most people puchase so many things that are not necessary to get your business started. start with very little debt.

Lora

mypastrychef Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
mypastrychef Posted 12 Dec 2006 , 7:14am
post #27 of 31

Also you could trya coffee shop?

I know a lady in dallas rented a doughnut shop, most of them close at noon.

Lora

cocorum21 Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
cocorum21 Posted 12 Dec 2006 , 1:12pm
post #28 of 31

I hate to say this but I'm glad it's not just me that's had this experience, I thought maybe I'm just being too critical. But then I didn't even consider the fact that the churches might be busy with holiday things. I'd hate to attend the church for sunday service with the wrong intentions in my heart I wouldn't feel comfortable with that. I am going to wait until after the holidays to look. I'm going to try some other venues and I'll try the churches again in person in a few weeks and take some cookies and a small cake. Also I didn't mean to come down on church secretaries.

Thanks for the support

dl5crew Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
dl5crew Posted 12 Dec 2006 , 1:39pm
post #29 of 31

I hope you find a kitchen that meets all of your needs. At my church I have been hesitant to ask to rent the kitchen. Our kitchen is used all the time. There was a time when things were missing or being misplaced. I went in to help our church secretary organize the kitchen & label where everything went. About a week later we had a church dinner. Nothing was put back where it was supposed to be. The people cleaning were told to look @ the labels. Long story shortened... I came home & made a a "contract" about cleaning the kitchen and everything. Included a line about a $25.00 deposit to ensure everything would be done. I took it on the following Sunday to the church secretary at church. She loved it. She showed it to the Pastor who approved it. Now anyone, including members has to read & sign the contract also leave the deposit. I should say "especially" members. Churches also have to carry liability insurance. You will need that yourself. keep your head high. You'll find what you need.

bethola Cake Central Cake Decorator Profile
bethola Posted 12 Dec 2006 , 1:41pm
post #30 of 31

Peajay66---THANK YOU!!! for your incredibly insightful analogy of the church secretary! LOL Are you SURE you live in Nebraska and not Madisonville KY? I retired from Nursing Education 5 years ago to become the Pastor's Secretary. I wouldn't give it up for anything! It's THE BEST job I have ever had. I work harder and the paycheck is smaller than I've had since I was 16 and worked at Ben Franklin! But, the benefits are GREAT! You are correct...EVERYONE thinks I am THEIR secretary....even the church members. I get calls at home all the time. I wouldn't even THINK of not answering them.....I know....I know...."Boundaries are GOOD!" Now refresh my memory....What are boundaries? LOLL

cocorum21---I don't think you came down hard on the church secretaries. I think that probably, as others have stated, you happened to get the secretary on a bad day. However, she MAY be like that all the time. In which case.....she might ought to rethink her "career choice". Last week while I was in the middle of decorating "The Cake from He--" (check my photos) and the groom's cake as well as handle other church business (had the phones forwarded to the kitchen), a telemarketer called for the FIFTH TIME that week! I PROMISE the FIFTH TIME! My exact words to the person were "I have repeatedly asked in the past week that your company not call us....we are not interested. This is going to sound harsh and I realize you probably are not aware of the previous calls, but, PULEEEZE DO NOT call me AGAIN!!!" They haven't called again! I did feel "a little" bad about it, though. I'm normally pleasant on the phone.

Merry Christmas!

Beth in KY

Quote by @%username% on %date%

%body%