gpenguin
I know how you feel
I was a lurker for a while before I got up enough nerve to post a reply.
It was a question about what to put between the icing and cardboard of the cake below it so the icing wouldn't stick. I actually had a good answer for this, I have always used coconut (a small amount just under the outline of the cake circle), I also indicated that I always let my customers know this and usually I serve the wedding cake and I tell the people as I am serving it that there is coconut on the middle of it I have had responses from yummy to yuck, no one was ever rude, but it created a flurry of responses and you would have thought I had suggested that we put posion, on the cake. I ALMOST decidied that this was not the place for me, but I decided to let it roll off my back and continue on. I'm glad I did. So, don't get discourged keep on posting and caking 
Jibbies
If someone had said to the anchient Romans, "Hey guys, maybe using lead pipes for our water supply might not be such a great idea.", we might all be speaking Latin today.
Good point GPenguin.
Also, though, good point Doug.
As I read this I notice I'm drinking my coffee out of my styrofoam cup and my water out of a clear plastic bottle.
I truly appreciate BOTH the views and the information backing it up.
LOL, Man, Doug you crack me up! Yah, chocolate and cheese. Sounds good to me! But Im sure there is something in the pasterzation process of the cheese that will kill us! Oh well. I guess that is why there is so many cases of cancer. There is just so many things out there that arent safe. Sad.
Thank you gpenguin for sharing your research. I was just looking at my Wilton foam squares (for making gumpaste flowers). The thin one is very similar to high density foam rollers. Could we send a petition to Wilton, begging them to make a food safe roller?! I'd really like a 12 " one!! 
While I can understand that there may be some concern, I believe that with the small amount of time and the limited intake of icing that the danger would be minimal. But, the question becomes--why doesn't someone come up with a food safe high denisty roller? That would be great and if the rollers came in different sizes, that would be even better.
Yes, PLEASE can't someone develop a food safe roller?!?! This method for smoothing icing is the best I've ever used! And I agree with ejenn...if the rollers could come in larger sizes for use on larger sheet cakes such as the 11x15 and the 12x18 that would even be better!
I was going to get one one day. And they had a chemical smell to me or something kind of different. I thought about it and I decided I did not want to use it on icing either.
Welcome to CC ejenn and Debbie56. It's great to have you both aboard. I think you're gonna love it here. The people are fantastic and willing to help with anything you may have a question on. I spend waaaay too much time on here but it's hard to stay away. Without a doubt, it's my second family......
Thanks everyone for all of the information, especially gpenguin--Please keep us informed of any other interesting findings you may come across as they relate to cake decorating!! We all know the "bad" things that we continue to do every day might eventually be our downfall, but I prefer to be informed, even if I continue to do something "bad", like not exercising enough, or consuming aspertame-laden foods or drinks, or eating one more slice of cake! Life's to live, but I don't mind being an informed part of the human race!!! I love CC!
what about:
1. using the roller with paper towel or parchment paper below?
2. using your wooden/plastic rolling pin.
i'm off to make a small batch of buttercream and test the rolling pin out.
I was thinking the same thing about using parchment paper under the roller. I bought a roller a while back but have yet to try it (haven't made a BC cake since buying it). I have a background in science and chemistry (my degree is in Environmental Science) and I find both gpenguin's and Doug's arguments to be valid. I think using a paper towel or parchment paper or wax paper under the roller would be a good comprise. You can still use the roller to smooth, but it is not coming into contact with the icing.
I'll throw my two cents in here as well...
First of all, in this day and age, the majority of people, when they hear something either online, tv, news, etc. They believe it. It's no longer Innocent until proven guilty, it's guilty until proven innocent. What I mean is (and I'm not saying Everyone is like this, but a large majority), you take something and run with it. The example of the Swiffer was already used, and that is a good example. Another would be toothpaste. I remember hearing years ago if you consume too much toothpaste, you will get cancer. That being said, whether it's true or not, I don't know. Is it going to make me stop using toothpaste with the fear that I may ingest a small amount and years from now get cancer? Heck no.
They way I look at Doug's response is that if he hadn't put more ideas or thoughts into some CC members heads, then there are probably a few who would've only thought that the rollers will give you cancer and wouldln't have thought about other products that are most definately doing the same, whether we want to admit it or not.
I'm not saying that I disagree with anything gpenguin is saying.. I'm not a chemist therefore I don't know anything about the study, however from what I understand, the chances are really quite slim. I can't imagine not washing the roller after use.. especially if there is icing left on it. It would get moldy and gross and then I definately wouldn't use it. That being said, for me, the roller is maybe on the cake less than a couple of minutes. It would take me years of doing cakes for the roller to be on the actual cake for at least an hour. I guess with everything else out there in the world, this to me seems so minor to get all worked up over. If you don't want to use the roller because it may cause cancer, then don't.. it is one less thing to worry about. However don't start overthinking what may or may not cause you cancer or you'll definatly become a Bubble boy/girl.
Lastly, and I'm certainly not meaning to attack here.. but just because you do not have a degree in a specific subject, does not mean you know any less about it. My father and sister in law are both Extremely, extremely intelligent people, and I know they could probably explain exactly what you did, and neither of them have a chemistry degree. Same thing can be said about most cc'ers. Just because we didn't go to pastry school and become a chef does not mean we don't know the ins and outs of baking.
Thanks again for sharing, I'm sure you enlightened a few members and I know for me, I appreciate reading all sides of an arguement. Keeps you on your toes
I agree. It wasn't an "attack". He just needed more information, as did I, before concluding it absolutely positively is not safe to use.
I've only used this method once, and it took all of 2 minutes (probably not even that long) to do a large cake, so, exactly how harmful is that? It was washed in soap and water first, and only touched the icing a few seconds at a time, so how much could leach out in that small amount of time, and considering no one is going to consume a whole cake by themselves (one would hope), how dangerous is it in the long run?
It isn't fair to say you're attacked just because someone has questions and wants more answers before they scare themselves into not using something.
Doug is always very helpful, and I've never seen him attack anyone, but I'm glad he asked the questions he did. It's questions I myself had, but I'm not quite as articulate, so I wasn't sure how to ask.
I thank you both. I thank you gpenguin, and your husband, for going to the lengths you have to test this and make sure it is safe to use, and I thank Doug for trying to get the answers we probably all want to know, but aren't sure how to ask.
I'm still unsure if it's safe or not, based on what has been said. The funny thing is, if a company did come out with one that is labled "food safe", it would probably be made of the same material. Test one of those little flower sponges and see if it's the same. I'm sure it's probably not identical, but you might just get the same results. *shrug* Who knows? Of course, then it could be argued the flower sponges aren't up against grease, etc., but if it's the same material and considered food safe, that shouldn't be an issue.
Sometimes, I think I don't explain things very well.. That made much more sense in my head. Eh well.
Take care,
Holly
Of course, then it could be argued the flower sponges aren't up against grease, etc., but if it's the same material and considered food safe, that shouldn't be an issue.
I'd be interested in knowing if that chemical is present in the flower sponges. I use shortening on gumpaste to keep it from drying so fast. 
gpenguin, sorry you got so offended by Doug's post, but you have to admit that your original post was pretty generic. You never stated your background or any real "data" as to why these rollers may or may not be harmful.
I too am sorry you were offended and felt attacked, but that was my point exactly. I was merely demanding that the proper scientific data and evidence in support of the assertion.
gpenquin, as a credentialed, "highly-qualified," master-degreed teacher of now 32 years, my constant mantra to my students about doing research and presenting the results of that research is:
PROVE IT!!!!!!!!
And boy you better document everything and I do mean EVERYTHING! or I mark it wrong for being a generalized assertion of OPINION -- which is WORTHLESS as everyone has one (and some of us many more than one!)
As they quickly learn, unless it is an item of so-called "general knowledge," such as "the sky is blue," or "dirt and water make mud," they better have primary, or at best secondary, source citations for everything they offer up. (Thou shall NOT use any encyclopedia or Wikipedia or any random web page or any source past secondary. Thou SHALL check and verify the credentials of each and every source to guarantee they truly are a recognized authority and an expert on the topic of discussion.)
IF you had provided the additional information that you provided in your second post in your first post, while I would still have had questions, such as the one raised about "does washing the roller in dish detergent and thorough rinsing mitigate the problem or is the problem still present and at what level?" or "does the level of toxins decrease with time or does it increase due to deterioration of the sponge material as it reacts with the fats, oils and other chemicals present?", I would have been satisfied that the data provided was cause for concern and further study.
My concern was with the lack of data in the first post. I was not questioning your credentials or your training nor those of anyone associated with you. Point of fact, I didn't even know what your or the other individuals' credentials were to even question them. "Chemist" is very generic -- and could even mean "pharmacist." I would ask you to consider the reaction of your peers if you had published your warning any journal of chemistry or chemical engineering without providing the data. As someone else pointed out, tho' we may not have the same degree as you, we are your peers in baking and seek the hard data that will make our lives as bakers easier and our products better.
It wasn't until your second post we learned your husband was also a chemist and that a third chemist was involved too. Again, had this data been supplied in the first post, it would have added exceptional credence to your warning.
In this day of the internet where anyone can assert to be anything and not have to offer verifiable proof, where anyone can pontificate about any topic and be viewed as an expert whether that is true or not, please pardon my ingrained, stubborn, skeptical nature that insists --- prove it! (I must be Doubting Thomas' direct descendant!)
Thank you for supplying the data.
It does provide food for thought and that more testing is definitely in order to establish if the rollers can ever treated or conditioned to be "safe" or if this is something we must forgo in the interest of safety.
Personally, the question is moot for me as I HATE buttercream and find it only suitable as a base for fondant, my preferred way to decorate a cake.
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And as for my credentials -- I teach something more "evil" than chemistry -- English! Tho' every one of my science teachers and even my chemistry major college roommate all said I should become a science teacher.
And it was drummed into my head that one never, ever presents the results of an experiment or any research without also presenting the supporting data. I too now drum this into my students' heads.
I still love science and especially chemistry and physics -- I understand it all easily ---
except ---
for that one major BOULDER of a stumbling block --
Any form of math beyond Algebra Ia --
If only all of Chemistry could be done with words and models and diagrams (all my forte) and not all those equations requiring math that goes way beyond difequ.
Which is why I was able to get straight "A"s in all my college bio and earth science classes (well, except for the dissection unit -- a deft hand with the scalpel I did NOT have!) and even managed a B in Chem. (see math problem). After the D in Calc II, Physics was not considered. I may be bad at higher math, but I did at least keep trying.
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I do appreciate all the good science and scientists do for us, how in many instances they have truly made our lives better and easier.
But, I am not so naive as to give anyone a "bye" just because they have a bunch of letters behind their name. Prove it.
Nor am I so naive as to accept that because xyz happens with animals it will be the same in humans. Remember the thalidomide disaster? It seemed safe; lab animal tests had not raised any warnings. But, then the severely deformed human babies were born. Sometimes even "proof" proves wrong.
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re: "sky is falling" -- that goes back to generalizations and warnings unsupported by data.
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If anything, from 31 years of teaching I have learned that one should never assume that people will believe me unless I prove it or that I should ever sell my students short on their own knowledge and insight.
Even "laymen" can understand the finest points of nearly any subject when it is presented accompanied by a full explanation that starts at the point the learner is and takes them to where you want them to be. Even those without a major or advanced degree in a subject can understand it, properly presented. The purpose of education, research, and science should be to "enlighten" not to make others feel inadequate or as outsiders peeking in to the "holy of holies" who can never hope to comprehend or understand. Consider the finest teachers you had and how they unfolded the most complex topics for you, treating you not like some idiot but as inquiring mind that just hadn't learned xyz yet and they were just chomping at the bit to help you learn it and to instill in you a shared enthusiasm for it. They didn't lecture you, they taught you.
With your second post, you started where I was -- questioning and seeking data -- and took me to where you wanted me to be: concerned enough about the safety of using the rollers to want to forgo their use until more data has been presented as to if they can be made safe or must not be used. In your second post, you taught me.
For that, I thank you.
I understand the point, but read the ingredients on the back of a cake mix! 
Americans pump themselves full of cancer causing chemicals every time we eat refined or chemically processed foods out of a box or anything at a restaurant. We have the crappiest (and deadliest) diets in the world!
Cancer, heart disease, obesity............I would think that the ingredients we all make our cakes out of...fat, fat, and more fat will kill someone faster than a foam roller.
Shelly
I too am sorry you were offended and felt attacked, but that was my point exactly. I was merely demanding that the proper scientific data and evidence in support of the assertion.
With your second post, you started where I was -- questioning and seeking data -- and took me to where you wanted me to be: concerned enough about the safety of using the rollers to want to forgo their use until more data has been presented as to if they can be made safe or must not be used. In your second post, you taught me.
Thank you for that. I did feel attacked. I truely felt question for proof could have been asked without capitalizing (which I equate online as yelling) and some of the other statements made, or demanding, as you stated. A simple "Proof please?" would have been nice. I have learned over the years that I need to "dumb it down" in some cases or else I am contiually explaining myself, especially in a non-chemical environment. Ninty-five percent of the time when I would tell people what I did I would just get a blank stare. I don't mind being questioned. As a scientist I was trained to question and trained how to show my answers. To see proof. That is why I had the test carried out. I had to know what the result was, not just speculation. I really wanted to use those rollers.
I actually asked the company when I called what raw materials were used but they told me it was proprietary information. The analysis only showed the isocyanate group. The assumption made was that it was a diisocyanate so the number was divided by two, since the majority of PUs are made with those. Blanks were also ran so we knoew there wasn't any in the liquid before the soaking. I did have a private message sent to me asking about the posibility of lead being in the rollers as some are made in China (and there is such a scare for lead right now, but depending on the size some are made in Germany). I will ask if any of the liquid remains to test. If not, I will cut up some more and see. I have a friend with the capability to test for lead, but I don't know if he will have to charge me and I can't afford it right now. I would actually be much more concerned about lead than the isocyanates, but again I don't even know if they use lead in their manufacturing process.
My husband is actually very interested in seeing if he can develop something that is food safe, maybe not a polyurethane but something that will hold the same firmness. His comapny's big thing right now is recreating common products using biologically safe raw materials. They have done some good work so far. Once my girls start school I will probably try to get back in to analytical testing of polymeric materials, which is what I did for about ten years. I wasn't very fond of doing the synthesis work (especially using formaldehyde which I turned out to have an allergy to) so I quit as soon as I found out I was pregnant. Hard to give up $75,000 a year, but worth it now that my babies are here and healthy.
As an English teacher, please ignore my grammar and spelling. Lucky for me chemistry was not based in words or I would have failed miserably. Funny thing is, almost every chemist I know likes to cook. It isn't that much different from doing a reaction in the lab.
glad to see we can make "peace"
as for dumbing down -- oy vey! don't I know!!!! --- it really scares me how poorly prepared some of my students are!
lead? groan! does it ever end he asks rhetorically.
as for shouting --- well--- did I ever deny have a big mouth and a really loud voice (thanks to many years of singing and doing theater --- PROJECT!!!! yells the director from the back of the house)?
oooooo....like the concept your husband's company is working on.
as for your grammar and spelling --- off duty here, that's for school (well I do have to admit cringing when people use "that" instead of "who" and my personal pet peeve, good when it should be well and vice versa). Besides --- along with my trouble with math, much of it due to number inversion, I scramble letters when spelling better than tiles in a Scrabble tile bag! If I can catch bad spelling -- it's not bad, it's horrid!
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oh, and I never responded about allergy.
let me just share this warning for your sister. monitor carefully your response to:
skin of mangoes and cashew nuts, cashew oil, traditional Chinese lacquer finishes which are made with cashew oil and in some cases pistachios.
sad to say those of us who are deathly allergic to poison ivy (and I would blister and have skin peal like a 2nd-degree burn -- steroids? -- been there, done that and then some!) often develop an allergic reaction to the items I just mentioned.
as a child and teen I could eat cashews with impunity, as much as the budget allowed. But in my 30's that changed. Having not realized it that an allergy to cashews had kicked in for me and eating some unaware --- well.....the reaction wasn't pretty nor did it feel very good. Imagine blisters everywhere, and I do mean EVERYWHERE, those nuts touched!
and wouldn't you know it -- all the commercial trail mixes have cashews and so do so many tasty Chinese dishes. 
NOT FAIR! (keeping fingers crossed that I don't also become allergic to pistachios)
http://www.allergicchild.com/tree_nut_allergies.htm
http://dermnetnz.org/dermatitis/plants/cashew.html
(scary part is the risk of anaphylaxis in young children)
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and finally for grins and giggles, in response to the comment that so many chemists like to cook (bake? hey it's just a formula based on far more yummy "chemicals" and you usually can eat the result!) -- here's a fun site:
http://www.cookingforengineers.com/
oh, and I never responded about allergy.
let me just share this warning for your sister. monitor carefully your response to:
skin of mangoes and cashew nuts, cashew oil, traditional Chinese lacquer finishes which are made with cashew oil and in some cases pistachios.
sad to say those of us who are deathly allergic to poison ivy (and I would blister and have skin peal like a 2nd-degree burn -- steroids? -- been there, done that and then some!) often develop an allergic reaction to the items I just mentioned.
as a child and teen I could eat cashews with impunity, as much as the budget allowed. But in my 30's that changed. Having not realized it that an allergy to cashews had kicked in for me and eating some unaware --- well.....the reaction wasn't pretty nor did it feel very good. Imagine blisters everywhere, and I do mean EVERYWHERE, those nuts touched!
and wouldn't you know it -- all the commercial trail mixes have cashews and so do so many tasty Chinese dishes.
NOT FAIR! (keeping fingers crossed that I don't also become allergic to pistachios)
Oh, sorry about the allergies developing later. So far my sis is only problematic with penecillin and poison ivy/oak/sumac. My dad is, too. Me and my mom escaped those. I have the "weird" allergies. I am allergic to aspartame (in the form of dibilitating stomach cramps) and creosote (the stuff they put on wood like telephone poles to keep them from rotting). I have developed long time exposure allergies to a a few chemicals. Formaldehyde didn't get to me for about six months. I passed out in a room where injection molding was being done from the plasticizer they were using. I can use the final product with no trouble once it is cooled, but the plasticizer vapors had my esophagus closed in less than 15 seconds. I was not amused to wake up outdoors surrounded by EMTs. No one else in the room was affected. The other chemicals I have developed allergies from are still merely at the contact dermitits stage so wearing gloves could easily prevent problems. Just hope I don't develop a latex allergy. Truely my biggest allergy fear would be if I became allergic to chocolate. I would just have to curl up and whimper forever.
I was going to mention in all the woe over what things are made of that I used to use 100% phenol. I would suit up in a neoprene suit, latex gloves covered by heavy duty neoprene gloves, face shiled, goggles, heavy boots, etc. I was so amazed that something we use all the time (it is in chloroseptic, carmex and as hospital antiseptic to name a few) can be so highly toxic at percentages above five percent. I think that was the job that got me interested in learning more about toxicities of chemicals that we come into contact with every day. I used to spend hours in my off time looking up all kinds of things I worked with to make sure I was handling them properly. I never thought I was going overboard, but trying to insure my own safety. Many of my coworkers thought I was nuts. I never had one incident in my entire career though. All that time spent has really hightened my awareness of the things around me.
I try not to let someone else's grammer get to me since I'm not so great at it myself. BUT, my biggest pet peeve (to the point of nearly having to walk away from the person) is using "these ones" and "those ones" instead of these and those.
First off thank you for posting this information, now people can make up their own minds about using it or not.
I do have to add that with all these things that cause cancer, you better stop washing your clothes with detergent because some of those have cancer causing agents. How but taking in that nice deep breath of fresh air? Air's not really fresh with all the pollution, I haven't tested the air lately (don't have a fancy degree) but I could bet there is cancer causing agents in there too! What about the radiation that comes off of our computers? How about the ground? I'm sure if we tested the dirt that our kids play with, and I'm talking dirt, not from the store, there would be cancer causing agents in there as well. Everywhere you look there is some kind of chemical that causes something.....we aren't safe anywhere! Especially if we ate half the cakes we decorate with all that crisco and butter goes straight to the heart!
Anyways, just my two cents.....
Tammy
First off thank you for posting this information, now people can make up their own minds about using it or not.
I do have to add that with all these things that cause cancer, you better stop washing your clothes with detergent because some of those have cancer causing agents. How but taking in that nice deep breath of fresh air? Air's not really fresh with all the pollution, I haven't tested the air lately (don't have a fancy degree) but I could bet there is cancer causing agents in there too! What about the radiation that comes off of our computers? How about the ground? I'm sure if we tested the dirt that our kids play with, and I'm talking dirt, not from the store, there would be cancer causing agents in there as well. Everywhere you look there is some kind of chemical that causes something.....we aren't safe anywhere! Especially if we ate half the cakes we decorate with all that crisco and butter goes straight to the heart!
Anyways, just my two cents.....
Tammy
Nicely said!
I feel soooooo much better now. 
~Not about the thought of giving up my roller 
~But knowing there is a happy ending 
Just wondering your thoughts on the paper usage....
I use a Viva paper towel and run over that with my fondant smoother. I did use my fingers but it gave me a rippled effect so it is my personal preference. I haven't ever used typing or notebook paper on a cake I have made and probably won't since the paper towel works for me, but have used them on a dirty table to protect my food when I haven't had a napkin.
What Doug said about the chemicals being in paper is true, but I have laso not heard of those chemicals being directly linked to illnesses in people after ingestion. Who hasn't put a piece of paper in their mouth when they needed a hand free? I'm not saying that you should use typing paper, and I'm not saying you shouldn't. I think as in all things, it is a judgement call you have to make.
Welcome to CC ejenn and Debbie56. It's great to have you both aboard. I think you're gonna love it here. The people are fantastic and willing to help with anything you may have a question on. I spend waaaay too much time on here but it's hard to stay away. Without a doubt, it's my second family......
Thanks--I just learned about the site from Debbie yesterday--I think I will really enjoy it.
...and I get tired of people posting snotty responses to people willing to help others make informed decisions on how they deal with "feeding the public".
THANK YOU GPENGUIN for finding out and answering what many of us wanted to know. I, for one, do not want to knowingly use something that is potentially dangerous and get sued.
Millions of kids get chicken pox every year. It's not a fatal disease just a part of childhood yet a few kids die from it every year. Maybe no one will get sick from a cake smoothed by a foam roller but maybe someone will...maybe your own kid.
Using something not approved for use on food is irresponsible to your clientele. Using something laced with chemicals is criminal if it's directly touching the food. I don't want to take the chance of making even one person ill because I can't find a better way to smooth a cake.
Call me crazy for caring too much...THANKS AGAIN FOR THE INFO...I've been waiting to hear about this for a while.
As a PS...don't post snotty responses to me...I've had my say and am not watching this topic anymore. Rock on "penquin"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have to laugh and shake my hed at people who post and then say they've had their say and we shouldn't post anything in response to what they've said because they aren't watching the post anymore! So as long as your opinion is stated nobody else is allowed to have one? and if they do you won't listen to it.
I believe people are posting their ownthoughts and opinions as well as facts on this matter just like the original poster did. I see nothing wrong with that it's too bad that you might look at it in a negative light. The glass must be half empty.....
Tammy
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