Is It Ethical To Use Someone Else's Recipe In Your Business?

Business By Monica_ Updated 12 Sep 2006 , 4:04am by Binkytwins

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Monica_ Posted 7 Sep 2006 , 3:12pm
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My husband and I are having serious talks about investing into a business. Serious enough that I have begun the process of developing a potential menu. One issue that I'm concerned with is, when is it okay to use a recipe you found from someone else for personal profit? If a place like food network posts their recipes on the net, is there some disclaimer tucked away that says this is only intended for personal use? As opposed to finding something buried in the mire of the web, some scrap of a recipe notated in a random blog that I probably couldn't find again if I tried?


What if you alter the recipe? Does it become your own? Sure I started with the banana bread recipe out of the Joy of Cooking, but I certainly do enough things differently to make it unrecognizeable. I add cinammon and nutmeg and extra vanilla, sometimes even a pinch of allspice, and I alter the sugar to be half brown, half white, and used in higher quantity. Does this make it my recipe?

I don't believe that anybody just sat around and did a hundred different test of throwing random stuff in a pot together to see what comes out palatable. Even the great names in cooking and their sensational recipes probably started off as a much lamer version before it was evolved into a more perfect form.

But how fuzzy is the line?


Anyways, just wanted some input!

29 replies
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fearlessbaker Posted 7 Sep 2006 , 3:21pm
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OK, I hope you don't think I am being sarcastic! But how else woulod you get recipes if they are not published in cookbooks, on the net etc.? I thought that was the purpose of publishing in the first place. If you feel uncomfortable about it, I guess, you could as the person who was the originator of the recipe for their permission. The only other way is to develope your own I guess. But how many people can do that?

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TOMAY Posted 7 Sep 2006 , 3:22pm
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I agree with you i have never known of anyone that created their recipe by extensive reasearch.......... I do not think that its un ethical resturants feed millions each year with processed frozen food from other companies and they never tell you oh thats not our cordon blue tyson made it

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Monica_ Posted 7 Sep 2006 , 3:29pm
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LOL funny perspective, Tomay. Thanks icon_smile.gif


I guess I was just wondering about the potential legal dangers.

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tracy702 Posted 7 Sep 2006 , 3:30pm
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I have to agree, receipe are published for a reason, to be used. If you use it great! If you change it a little, even better, you just created a new recipe. That is how you develop you own, by making it your own, using your favorite flavor, or by tweeking it.

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SweetThistleCakes Posted 7 Sep 2006 , 5:13pm
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There is nothing stopping you. I wanted to protect my dog treat recipes are few years ago because I'm selfish and wanted them all to myself, but there is nothing that one can do.

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RisqueBusiness Posted 8 Sep 2006 , 1:43pm
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It it not unethical to use someone else's recipe unless it's a "secret" copywritten recipe!

if you find a recipe that you love and can adjust 3 to 4 things in it..be it quantities, ingrediets..adding or deleting...

It then becomes YOUR recipe, that you may then use if you ever publish your own recipe book.

Yes, I had this same question while I was in culinary school and that was the answer I got from the Chef Instructors...

Hope this helps!

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SweetThistleCakes Posted 8 Sep 2006 , 4:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RisqueBusiness

It it not unethical to use someone else's recipe unless it's a "secret" copywritten recipe!

if you find a recipe that you love and can adjust 3 to 4 things in it..be it quantities, ingrediets..adding or deleting...

It then becomes YOUR recipe, that you may then use if you ever publish your own recipe book.

Yes, I had this same question while I was in culinary school and that was the answer I got from the Chef Instructors...

Hope this helps!




Which results in you copyrighting the publication, but not the recipe!

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RisqueBusiness Posted 8 Sep 2006 , 4:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppyloveconfections

Quote:
Originally Posted by RisqueBusiness

It it not unethical to use someone else's recipe unless it's a "secret" copywritten recipe!

if you find a recipe that you love and can adjust 3 to 4 things in it..be it quantities, ingrediets..adding or deleting...

It then becomes YOUR recipe, that you may then use if you ever publish your own recipe book.

Yes, I had this same question while I was in culinary school and that was the answer I got from the Chef Instructors...

Hope this helps!





Which results in you copyrighting the publication, but not the recipe!




But then...isn't everything you have published becomes a "copywritten" work?

I guess the best way to go is to ..."PATENT" the recipe if its worth it? Like the really BIG BIG guys do?

All I know that there really isn't anything really "new" out there. everything is just adjusted to taste, regions and just plain.."coz I felt like it"..lol

but...I don't think that any one really worries about these issues unless they are some famous chef world renowned for their cuisine??? that has to worry about that..

Here...we trade recipes back and forth freely..

as a matter of fact...I love the cake extender recipe from this site...I find that adding a whole cup of sugar makes the cake too sweet for me..so I add less.........

those are the "little" changes that make that recipe..."MINE"...lol

and I just "shared" my "version"..lol

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SweetThistleCakes Posted 8 Sep 2006 , 5:32pm
post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by RisqueBusiness

Quote:
Originally Posted by puppyloveconfections

Quote:
Originally Posted by RisqueBusiness

It it not unethical to use someone else's recipe unless it's a "secret" copywritten recipe!

if you find a recipe that you love and can adjust 3 to 4 things in it..be it quantities, ingrediets..adding or deleting...

It then becomes YOUR recipe, that you may then use if you ever publish your own recipe book.

Yes, I had this same question while I was in culinary school and that was the answer I got from the Chef Instructors...

Hope this helps!





Which results in you copyrighting the publication, but not the recipe!



But then...isn't everything you have published becomes a "copywritten" work?

I guess the best way to go is to ..."PATENT" the recipe if its worth it? Like the really BIG BIG guys do?

All I know that there really isn't anything really "new" out there. everything is just adjusted to taste, regions and just plain.."coz I felt like it"..lol

but...I don't think that any one really worries about these issues unless they are some famous chef world renowned for their cuisine??? that has to worry about that..

Here...we trade recipes back and forth freely..

as a matter of fact...I love the cake extender recipe from this site...I find that adding a whole cup of sugar makes the cake too sweet for me..so I add less.........

those are the "little" changes that make that recipe..."MINE"...lol

and I just "shared" my "version"..lol




My understanding was that you can copyright the publication as a compilation, but not as an individual. usaribbon.gif

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okieinalaska Posted 8 Sep 2006 , 10:07pm
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It is my understanding you can not copywrite a recipe. You can copywrite the book it's in but not the actual recipes. You can also copywrite the specific how to directions, but not the actual recipe.

: )

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RisqueBusiness Posted 8 Sep 2006 , 10:08pm
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Good, those in the know...have answered!! lol

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TPDC Posted 10 Sep 2006 , 5:19am
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Most people if they do not want the recipe used by other people will not give the recipe to people (or it is a secret recipe among family). I would think you would be okay with using other recipes you found somewhere else.

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LukeRubyJoy Posted 10 Sep 2006 , 5:27am
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And you could always "credit" the person in your menu or in the title of the dish if you were really worried. Emeril does that all the time. He gets a recipe from someone, credits them, then says that he changed it up a bit (or, kicked it up a notch, as the case may be). icon_smile.gif

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rachpizano Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 3:23am
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First of all you are using recipes which are published there for those who are publishing them should expect they are going to be used for all types of uses. Besided what the likely hood that some company is going to came and say hey your icing tastes just like ours Let me see your recipe. probably not going to happen. I say go for it. and not worry about it.

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Melvira Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 3:35am
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It is totally ethical to use a recipe you found in a book or on the net, etc. That's where good cooks get their good ideas. But as you mentioned, you add or delete, therefore making it your own special recipe, so I wouldn't look at it as though you are using their recipe. I would think of it as starting with their recipe as a building block, and tweaking it until you get your recipe! Give yourself that credit because you deserve it. Oh, and the only way I would say it was NOT ethical, would be if you posed as a cook and got hired, stole the secret recipes, then opened a restaurant and had a menu that said things like, "Applebees famous riblets" and that sort of thing. At that point, you would need a good lawyer more than a good recipe! icon_lol.gif

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playingwithsugar Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 3:40am
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Are you publishing a book or starting a cake business? Sorry, but it read to me as though you were considering a cake business. If so, then why do you think you have to worry about disclosing the recipe for the cakes you bake? A chocolate cake recipe may taste the same as someone else's, yet be made very differently. As far as recipes from a book are concerned, it would take a chemist to break down a baked cake to determine what is in it.

There are recipes I love that were given to me directly from members of this forum via PM's. My response to them was that I would like to make it a part of my repertoire. They have always responded positively.

I would say go for it.

Theresa icon_smile.gif

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lauramw71 Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 3:49am
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I was wondering the same thing too... Like i've found some GREAT cake recipes online... not party cakes, just regular cakes... Would u change the name or just use the one that u found? I would love to eventually branch out and make other cakes, not just the party ones.. But would be afraid of gettin in trouble. LOL

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Melvira Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 3:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lauramw71

I was wondering the same thing too... Like i've found some GREAT cake recipes online... not party cakes, just regular cakes... Would u change the name or just use the one that u found? I would love to eventually branch out and make other cakes, not just the party ones.. But would be afraid of gettin in trouble. LOL




If I use a 'known' recipe (with my own little changes) I always change the name. For example, The Cake Mix Doctor has a cake she calls the Hummingbird cake... I have adjusted a few of the ingredients to suit my taste, and offer it as something I call a 'Humdinger'. I don't feel that I am being dishonest or threatening her livelihood.

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Binkytwins Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 4:13am
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I worked for two large quick serve restaurant chains and have all of their recipes committed to memory and happily make the mashed potatoes or black beans at home for friends and family functions icon_biggrin.gif . But if you ask me for the recipe, I politely decline and state I am under a confidentiality agreement so I can not divulge it tapedshut.gif . It has been ten years since I last worked for one of these restaurants, and they are safely tucked away in my brain and I will take them to the grave icon_confused.gif .

However, from the volume food production courses that I have taken, most of these recipes are basically standard "ratio" recipes anyway for example, bread is 5:3. icon_rolleyes.gif What makes the recipe special is the amount of love you put into it. usaribbon.gif

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indydebi Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 10:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binkytwins

What makes the recipe special is the amount of love you put into it. usaribbon.gif




Amen! I tell my friends "I know it sounds cheesy, but it's the love and the passion that makes a difference!" I have clients rave over my oatmeal cookies (I personally don't like oatmeal cookies, so you can't go by me! icon_confused.gif ) and when they say "Oh, I'd love to have your recipe!" I just shrug and tell them, "It's on the side of the box." Most of them don't believe me. They can use the same recipe and it may or may not come out the same.

The love and the passion. That's what makes the differnce. That's why we do it! icon_wink.gif

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ChristaPaloma Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 10:57am
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Ha you're reminding me of a cartoon I saw once...

.... Waiter: Table 3 is asking if we can make a xxxxx
.... Chef: I'll let you know in a minute.... (goes to back room and does internet search for recipe...comes back)....sure thing...I got everything I need.

All recipes started as someone else's somewhere...some people share, some don't...the thing is to make them your own by using them.

Hope that helps.

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Melvira Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 1:29pm
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by indydebi

... when they say "Oh, I'd love to have your recipe!" I just shrug and tell them, "It's on the side of the box." Most of them don't believe me. They can use the same recipe and it may or may not come out the same.




Man, I thought that was just me! haha! I use the traditional Nestle tollhouse recipe all the time, and people think I do something really special because they just turn out a certain way... but I'm convinced it's the sheer will of my love for choc. chip cookies! icon_lol.gif

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indydebi Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 2:01pm
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I get my best recipes from church cookbooks (the ones that are printed for their fundraisers). Those little old ladies can COOK! (Oh wait ..... I think I'm really close to being classified as a "little old lady" so I best be careful! icon_lol.gif

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Narie Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 2:21pm
post #25 of 30

Recipes are one of those things that can not be copy-written. The exact wording can be, but not the simple listing of ingredients.

Quote:
Quote:

I use the traditional Nestle toll house recipe all the time, and people think I do something really special because they just turn out a certain way... but I'm convinced it's the sheer will of my love for choc. chip cookies!


That and your willingness to follow directions. When someone talks about the love we put into our cooking or baking, that is exactly what they are talking about. Love in almost any context means being willing to focus our care and attention on something or someone- being willing to put the effort into getting it right.


Also I think there is a morality issue involved in the process of creating food. The ingredients are gift from the nature/God, to be careless in their preparation is an abuse of those gifts.

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Monica_ Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 6:57pm
post #26 of 30

Some interesting comments to read through.

For clarification, its actually a full restaurant that we're discussing. Even though the fare would not be just limited to baked goods, I figured this community would be a great place for feedback. The idea is to focus on two main strengths: 1) There will not be a single can opener in the house! Developing realistic kitchen management procedures that allow me to boast that pretty much every sauce, dish, dessert and whatever else you can find is made from scratch; and 2) A restaurant that actually doesn't treat it's employees like dirt. For example, I think the restaurant industry must be the only one left in this country where it's still widely accepted and expected for staff to work 8 to 10 hour shifts without a meal or even so much as a break. I love food, I love the happiness it brings people, and I'm determined to prove that you can still make money in a business through good planning without sucking all the happiness right out of it.

I asked about the question of using other people's recipes because, sure, I doubt Emeril's ever going to hear that my restaurant even exists, let alone that some dish in it is awfully close to one he posted on Food Network's website. But I just had no idea what it looked like in the eyes of other people in general. I don't really have any friends who share the passion for food that I do to bounce ideas off of.

Plus, lets face it. We're in an era of psychotic extremnist judges who let you sue the pants off of anybody for so much as crossing your eyes at them. icon_wink.gif

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Binkytwins Posted 11 Sep 2006 , 7:20pm
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That is why I stopped working for restaurants in Miami, because I worked 10-12hr days on salary that equated to less than minimum wage. With no breaks or meals, unless I was the shift manager, I would sit everyone down to a family style dinner at closing and eat "leftovers" for about 20 minutes on the clock and then attack the cleaning and closing. I think it made for better comraderie and I got better work from people that were not treated like dirt. We are talking about people who came from nothing. I live in Miami, and these people were fresh on our shores from starving countries, they did not speak our language, they go hungry all day, and cried when leftovers were thrown in the dumpster while their families were starving. I just could not see it. The restaurant chain's mentality is that the staff would overproduce if they knew they could have the left overs, my philosophy was that if you "manage" your staff properly, this would not happen. These people were clearly taken advantage of because they did not know any better, because it was better than the communist country they fled from.

Good Luck with your adventure. And, it is good to see you have the "soul" you have regarding your employees. I felt if I were going to put that amount of work into something, I might as well own it. And, God Bless.

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MaisieBake Posted 12 Sep 2006 , 12:31am
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You're opening a restaurant and you don't know whether you can use printed recipes?

I urge you to find someone to talk to who knows the restaurant business.

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Monica_ Posted 12 Sep 2006 , 3:52am
post #29 of 30

I have years of experience working in restaurants, including inventory, prep planning, etc. I have a degree in Computer Sciences, and additional credits in Marketing and Management. I have financial backing, a spouse in the banking industry with loan officer experience, and an accountant for a sister. In short, I think I have enough relevant experience to make such a venture feasible as well as enough advisors to fill in the business management blanks, but pardon me for not being the sort of jackass who doesn't think twice about taking credit for someone else's work when it comes to my recipes.

***Moderator Edited**

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Binkytwins Posted 12 Sep 2006 , 4:04am
post #30 of 30

Well, have your employees sign a confidentiality agreement not to divulge recipes. You do not have to disclose a recipe to anyone, not even COKE does. It has a list of ingredients, but we don't know what amounts are in them. Most menus list key ingredients in their description. Most restaurant patrons are not savvy enough to know you got a recipe from a particular source and probably do not own many cookbooks. At least not like me where I have an obsessive amount of cookbooks. Besides, think of all the restaurants that have "buffulo wings" on their menus.... Good luck to you. Your heart is in the right place and it will probably show in your menu.

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