how much to charge per hour for your labor?

since I am considering doing itemized billing for cakes, which would include:
>ingredients (mark-up already figured in)
>extras (boards, candles, purchased decorative elements w/ mark-up figured in)
>labor

should we charge for labor same as:

private music lessons
dance class lessons
academic subjet tutor
car mechanic
household help (maid/gardener/etc.)
baby sitter
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in know that if I just did gardener, it would be about $40/hr.

thoughts?
ideas?
advice?
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and do any of you itemize?

I was thinking about this myself and wondered if you would do like a builder and charge cost plus...15%? 40%???? plus extra xcharges for details...(extras) you mentioned. I will be interested to heear what everyone has to say

I don't think I would itemize it like that. I just put the price of the cake or other items on the invoice, one total. I don't think the particulars are any of their business. That's just me though.

Doug:

I do not itemize - just give one price. However you pose a very interesting question because just yesterday someone asked me if I would be interesting in giving private decorating classes. We haven't discussed price yet because this won't be until the Fall but it got me to thinking what I would charge hourly and I don't have the slighest clue......

Labor is one of those things you have to figure into the cost of the cake.
It's hard to figure this one out...you gotta somehow pay yourself.

The way I do my pricing is a set price decided upon by the number of servings. And I use number of servings for every cake, not just wedding.

Then I add extra depending on do you want a lot of flowers, or other stuff, or do you want a lot of royal work, which tends to be the same price as just a lot of flowers, or do you want fondant, or basketweave is extra, stuff like that.

I don't itemize costs, just prices like I said above. It works well with the folks I deal with. The first time I tried to figure out pricing, I called a lot of other bakeries and cake makers, and that's how they all did it.

One formula I've heard is costs x 3. I believe this is just for the basics.

i had the orginal idea to itemize because of all the "it costs HOW much...it's just flour and..." comments

thought maybe if people saw something like:

INVOICE:
1 12x18 sheet cake, BC icing, shell border: $20
Raspberry filling: $4
1 dozen BC roses: $6
Labor: $20
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Total: $50

they might not squak as much..and see that labor is a big part of the cake

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i've heard that too about cost x 3 for ingredients

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I may be over analyzing this...ah, the german in me! so a-r!!!

Doug, the problem I see is that they'll assume your labor is always $20--regardless of size differences in the cake. You may be opening a can of worms with itemized pricing. If your prices are in line with other bakeries, I can't see how they'll complain; unless they want a store cake, in which case you don't want them as your customer. Hand them a box of twinkies instead.

I think it might be too much information for the customer. They don't want to know how the sausage (cake in this case) is made. I mean, how do you charge customers for all the cutters and molds, pans, and specialty tools that go into making the cakes? That is a big expense as we broaden our skills and portfolios.

That would be a good thing for you to know, how much time you spend on a cake, even if you figure it out when you price the cake, but I wouldn't itemize it for the customer. I think it opens up the door for the customer to debate that the cake doesn't look like you spent 5 hours on it! (and as we have heard so many time, people have no idea what goes into their cakes)

I think that goes for ingredients too. People often think..cake mix $.79, etc.

The last wedding cake I made had probably $80 in chocolate (counting the choc fondant)! I doubt anyone would have guessed that or believed it.

I think having a beautiful cake that tastes delicious to them is worth the money. All they care is that everyone gets a slice.

i kind of agree lsawyer, if you put labor on the list then they might assume that amount for everytime they order a cake for labor. although, i guess if they saw the difference in the amount of labor cost, you could simple state that this cake required more time because of the amount of detail, etc. .... but i guess that kind of gives/ lets the customer know that more details mean more money.

wow....so much great advice.

thanks ladies (so far no gents)!!!

keep it coming.

I agree that detailing the cost info may be too much for a customer. My cake mentor (a retired 'cake lady' herself) stresses to me all the time that my cakes are HOMEMADE, One of a kind, and special, and that I should not undercut my prices to be competitive with bakeries (wal-mart, grocery store, etc.) because my product is different. When I started the whole pricing thing, I didn't include my labor, cuz I was already at home, so what was the big deal. However, my prices for a 20 slice cake were coming out like ridiculously low and my husband said, "no way. you shouldn't sell a cake for less than $20" So, I factored in my labor, which since I still wanted my per slice cost to be somewhat competitive because I'm just breaking into the biz, and since I'm still learning, at $10 an hour. It's more than I make babysitting for friends, and less than the $50/hr I made in corporate america, so there it is. I tried to base it on what the market would bear and what my 'cake decorating' time is really worth. When I'm as skilled as Colette Peters, I'll charge more per hour.

thanks, mrskennyprice.
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ok, no invoicing of labor.
just base price
then add ons for fondant, and really special stuff.

THANKS ALL, yet again!

Ok, at the risk of looking like an idiot, can I ask you all your opinion on two issues regarding pricing...

First, am I wrong in having varying prices per slice based on my raw materials cost (for example, right now my buttercream cake is only $1/slice, whereas cakes with ganache are $1.50/slice)? Would it be easier on everyone if I just took the median price and charged the same thing for all slices? What do you all think?

Second, I got a call from a friend of a friend who lives near DC (I'm about 1.5 hours outside DC, in the Shen Valley, and things here are not nearly so cosmopolitan) who wants to order a cake from me and she told me that I should be charging twice or three times the price I am for any cakes I sell to folks 'inside the beltway'. So, my question is twofold, first, just because things are not so 'cosmo' out here where I live, does that mean that I'm undercharging and second, should I have a separate price list for folks closer to the city with higher prices?

Sorry to beat a dead horse on this pricing issue - I was so sure that the way I had things structured was the 'right' way, but that phone call had me rethinking my strategy. I'd love to get your input.

Thanks!

While I've never gotten a comment like "It's just flour and water and eggs!", my answer to them would be "Then it shouldn't be a problem for you to make it." (I know that sounds harsh in black and white, but sometimes you just have to know when to say "no".). If they could do it, they wouldn't be coming to you. They are not paying for the flour and water and eggs.....they are paying for your skill and creativity. So it's not "just" eggs and flour. It's the talent to put it all together that makes a difference on whether it ends up lookinglike a wedding cake......or a pancake.

Doug,

If a babysitter in your town makes $40 an hour, then I'm moving there and am gonna start babysitting!!!!

I understand your point though, and really wish I could charge for labor. But, I live in a small town (about 30,000) and we have 3 small bakeries. Unfortunately, I can't charge what I think I need to because people just won't pay it here.

I've called around to the bakeries, grocery stores, to check prices and I'm comparable to them. And now we are getting a Super Walmart complete with bakery about 3 blocks from where I live.

I had a cake that was due yesterday for a boy's 10th birthday. Being new to cake decorating and being that this was done for a really good friend, I only charged $20. I spent the last 2 weekends baking the cake, making the icing, driving all over town and finally had to go to a neighboring town to find candy necklaces and candy coins. (It was a treasure chest cake on a 'base' half a sheet cake with MMF pirate, mermaid, cannon, and lobster). I assembled it and iced it only to have the cake fall apart. Then I rebaked and reassembled, iced it. Woke up to find the icing melted and fell off the cake. Wouldn't stick at all. Baked yet a third cake, iced it and had it done 30 minutes until she was supposed to pick it up. She got here only to find out it wouldn't fit in her compact vehicle. So, I put it in my SUV, and drove 20 miles into a neighboring city, set the cake up, and left.

If I charged a normal customer for the ingredients alone it would have been almost double the price I charged her. Not counting gas money I spent driving around getting the candy or delivering it. And that doesn't even count my labor, which was considerable. And to make it even worse, I am new to cake decorating, (as is obvious) so it takes me much longer than a seasoned pro like yourself. I just don't feel as if I can charge for labor.

Maybe in larger cities you can, but around here I believe the going rate is to total in your ingredients and charge $1.25 per person.

And I agree with the others, I wouldn't itemize the bill for anyone. That is just opening yourself up for trouble in my opinion.

Good Luck!