A "real bakery" where my instructor once worked used industrial cake mix and water. That's it. No eggs, butter, milk, etc. They are a popular bakery that charges top dollar!

I didn't say it wasn't possible to sell cheap cakes for a lot of money, I said it's not ethical.

BTW
homemade= made at HOME
it doesn't mean scratch-made.

I call my cakes homemade and if someone asks what recipe, I tell them. I can see why these threads get locked...it's really hard not to get annoyed (and hooked into) with all of the soapboxing.

i'm with you edicooks-- i say whatever tastes the best, wins. anyone who is that particular about "foreign ingredients" would absolutely be asking exactly what goes in the cakes..and i'm happy to let them know. i've never met someone like this.. and probably won't anytime soon...but it could happen. ) and by the way, did you know that sugar is linked to cancer? maybe we should write that on our cake boxes too. and maybe another warning that the smoke from birthday candles is toxic.

i think its time to lighten up. cake makes me happy.

how is it not "ethical" to sell cheap cakes for top dollar? WHAT? I can buy anything that I want cheaply and sell it to someone for whatever the market will bear. It would only be "unethical" if you present the product as "scratchmade" and it's actually "homemade" from a mix. That's a lie and that's why it would be considered "unethical".

good grief

I bake some from scratch and some from boxes. People rave about the cakes both from scratch and the box. Whenever I use a box mix, it always gets extra and sometimes inventive ingredients depending on what type of cake that I am in the mood to try. I make up a lot of my cakes, so it is a lot of fun. I also do the same with my fillings and frostings. It keeps it fun and my friends and family love to sample them. I haven't received any complaints yet!

It is unethical to misrepresent your box cakes as "homemade".

I dare you to ask your next customer if she thinks "homemade" means Duncan Hines.

It's the kind of "quasi-lying" that my teenager engages in.

Me: Where are you going ?
Teen: I'm going to Kelsey's .
I go to the movies with my husband and see teen at said movie.
Me: You told me you were going to Kelseys.
teen: Well,but, I went to Kelsey's first.

Ok, sorry. I wasnt' going to post here either, BUT...

My computer dictionary says this:

from scratch: from the very beginning, esp. without utilizing or relying on any previous work or assistance

homemade: made at home rather than a store or factory

A cake can still be homemade even if it contains cake mix, it is made at home/small bakery and is built by hand from someone who really cares about what they are doing.

Are scratch bakers growing their own wheat and grinding their own flour? Or churning their own butter? No. Then you still absolutely CANNOT have precise control over what is going into the cake. Using a cake mix gives you no less control over what is going into a cake. They have "perfected" and control their quality (don't shoot! LOL of output just like the flour manufacturers and butter producers have.

I think this thread is getting more wrapped up in the all natural/organic/vegetarian/vegan/algern-free VS. the regular stuff that most of this country uses on a daily basis -debate.

If someone (a customer, say) goes looking for an all natural/organic/vegetarian/vegan/algern-free cake, they're not going to assume that they will get that unless the baker has advertised as such, and are charging like TRIPPLE what everone else is charging.

There's no question that there is a lot of crap and artificial ingredients in all the processed foods produced these days. As cake BAKERS AND DECORATERS, we are not directly responsible for taking on this fight (unless we want to, in which case, you are included in the paragraph above and have more patience than I )

Anyone paying $50+ for a cake is paying that because they cannot or do not want to do the decorating, and more and more I'm learning that there are people who really can't or won't bake! That probably seems crazy to many of us here - really, some people have no idea how to work a mixer and no desire to learn how! That said, the same person who pays someone else to make a cake would most likely use a cake mix if they were to make one themselves!

I'm still working out my recipes - scratch and cake-mix-based alike! I will try whatever to get my own perfect cake. I will leave the all natural/organic/vegetarian/vegan/algern-free cakes to the passionate pros. Until I master a basic cake anyway!

Ok , I just saw the "selling mixed cakes for top dollar" thing and have to comment quickly... no one here is saying to out-right lie about using a cake mix. It's been stated over and over that if someone asks, you tell. But if no one asks, then what's the big freaking deal? If they ask and care ... good for them ... they'll be paying lots more for their "all natural" completely scratch-made, etc cake than they are for their "regular" cake, scratch or not.

I was working on a reply, but I'll just say ditto to crzadgrl.

I am leaving this thread now to go and ENJOY these threads and munch on a doctored cupcake.

I would contend that people are paying you $50 for a cake because they think it has better ingredients than the $20 cake from Sam's. I think it is deceptive to offer the same thing ( shortening based icing in a mix based cake) and charge double. At least at Sams Club they print the ingredients of the box.

As I said before, I have no problems with anyone baking with anything that works for them, but I think being honest with your customers is the cornerstone of an ethical business. Calling frosting made with no butter buttercream and calling Duncan Hines homemade is deceptive marketing, in my opinion. I would bet taht's the case in your customers eyes as well, if they knew what you were really selling.

Aahhhh......to be done!!!!

I miss central market Next time you're there, puppylove, buy a tamale for me....a HOMEMADE tamale that is.

Oh gee, guys! I can see the issue about allergies, but I've got to say that my doctored mixes are anything but cheap after I finish adding additional butter, syrups and real butter-based buttercream. It's the Crisco alone that I don't like or fondant that looks great but tastes ukky. Of course, I don't sell them and that allows me a greater latitude. I volunteer to be the guinea pig that tastes everyone's cakes and gives a rating on whether it contains boxed ingredients or not!! Now that's a great idea!

txkat........prithy, pray tell....... do define "homemade tamale."
And when we're done disucussing religion, let's venture into politics and sex. It's just so.....you know.....cake-like!
Cheers and happy baking!

A homemade tamale from central market is something like this, although I prefer the pork and beef tamales. Note that there is even another recipe for the tamal dough:


Chicken Tamales with Rajas and Queso Asadero

Courtesy of: Michelle Rodarte, Central Market
Makes 8 to 10 servings



5 poblano chiles
1 1/2 pounds Queso Asadero or other white, easy-melting cheese
2 pounds chicken
2 cloves garlic
1 bay leaf
1 teaspoon peppercorns
Tamal Dough
1 1/2 cups salsa verde (available in our Bulk Department)
Chile Colorado

Roast the poblano chiles, peel and seed. Cut the chiles into 1/4-inch strips lengthwise and place in a bowl. Cut the cheese into 1/4-inch strips and place in a separate bowl. Cook the chicken, whole or in pieces, by placing in a pot and filling with water about 2 inches over the chicken. Add the garlic, bay leaf and black peppercorns and simmer until fully cooked. Strain and let cool. (You may save the stock from the chicken for future use.) Shred the chicken and place in a bowl. You are now ready to assemble the tamales.

Spread the Tamal Dough (see separate recipe in this section) on the corn husk, place about 1 tablespoon of salsa verde in the middle, place some shredded chicken on top and finish with a strip of cheese and a strip of poblano.

Roll and tie with a strip of corn husk or fold tamale. Repeat until all ingredients are used.

Bring water to a boil in a large pot. Place the tamales in a steamer or colander. Place th steamer in the pot over the water; water should not touch the tamales. Steam for 40 to 50 minutes. Serve warm with Chile Colorado (see separate recipe under this section).

....wow....look another fight about mixes and scratch!!

Wow, that sounds AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!! Forget the cake!!

I've given this a lot of thought lately. Personally, I like Duncan Hines mixes. I've fed doctored cupcakes to my kids and they're still standing. They glow in the dark, but they're still standing.

But, and this is a big but... when I charge someone $55 for a quarter sheet cake, I can't in good conscience give them a mix cake. Even if I added butter and sour cream. It just feels deceitful. I don't care if they can't tell... *I* can. Clientele obviously varies, but I think those I serve assume that they're paying me a premium to deliver a premium.

For me (and others, maybe?), this is a pride issue. I want to provide something that not just anyone with a Kitchenaid mixer, a cake mix and a Wilton class can.

It has taken me years to nail down what I think are perfect white, yellow/butter and chocolate scratch cakes. I have waded through hundreds of recipes and methods and my family and friends have eaten mountains of samples.

It *is* possible to make a scratch cake that has a great texture and crumb, one that tastes of real butter and not the box mix twang. It doesn't take me any more time than a doctored box cake would, and the cost is comparable. It does involve a lot of recipe tweaking and some skill, but I believe it's the main reason I stay so busy with only word-of-mouth working for me.

Ultimately, it comes down to what you feel comfortable putting your name on. I may still make doctored yellow cupcakes because they remind me of my childhood (though I wouldn't put anything but butter in buttercream even if you held a gun to my head), but when someone is paying me for my expertise, they're going to get what they pay for.

Lori

Clarification: This was a long winded attempt to say, mainly, that when you charge someone 2x/3x/4x what they'd pay at a bakery (grocery store or otherwise), I think they're assuming they're getting an artisan/scratch cake... so, not divulging that you're using a mix is somewhat unprofessional and deceitful by omision.

Bravo Lori...very well articulated.

I'm not fighting about whether or not to use mixes....that's fine if you want to use them. I'm just saying you should disclose it to your customers.

I think if it's a real issue with the client...that they need everything to be organic (A nice government-issued word), then they will certainly express that to you, or seek a baker who they believe uses the "right" ingredients.

But please don't believe everything you read, either...on labels or anywhere else....if you didn't gather the eggs by hand from the chickens you fed only fresh corn to that you grew in your own backyard full of fresh, virgin dirt from the mountaintops of Crete (which has the healthiest menu on the planet)....then you are PROBABLY not getting what you think you are.

BTW...that Tamal dough has a pound of lard in its ingredients. I guess if the antifreeze won't kill ya....

That said, I reserve the right to publicly retract my previous answer ......I think you should definately tell your clients if you are using boxed cake mixes.

... I added a clarification at the end.

I just got all excited because this very topic has been taking up an inordinate amount of brainspace lately.

Obviously, the sleep deprivation from late-night baking is taking its toll.

yes, but the lard makes it yummy!!!!!!!!!!!

Virtually any food can be improved with the addition of either pork fat or chocolate.

I have to agree with Chef_Lori on this one. I think that when people pay a certain amount of money, there is a certain expectation that comes with it, particularly when they go to a smaller more "personal" shop. Right or wrong, people do make assumptions. So, honesty is always the best policy.

I don't think that it is unethical to sell cakes made from mixes, and I do think that most bakeries do it. With that being said, most people with a discerning pallet can indeed taste the difference between a scratch cake and a cake mix (even a doctored mix) - it has to do with the preservatives in a cake mix. I personally prefer scratch made cakes, and I can ALWAYS tell the difference. Many people do not care, and may even prefer the taste - then again, given the choice, there are still plenty of people who will pick deep fried twinkies for dessert over anything else. Bottom line is, it is about the customer. If your business is able to support the cake mixes - then congratulations! Some people care more about the decorations, and some people really have never been exposed to scratch cakes and have only ever tasted cake mixes and like the taste. It is all a matter of what you are accustomed to, and what your client base enjoys.