Health dept, I mean?

I'm losing sleep over something DH says is "torturing myself over a small matter"--that is, the issue of legality etc. My state doesn't license home kitchens, and I have found no where to rent. We will build, but until then...everyone is like, "Oh, come ON--just do it anyway! Who's going to care? What could happen?" Well, I keep thinking of...what could happen!!

What COULD happen?

We always talk about it, but have you ever actually gotten in trouble, or heard of anyone who's gotten in trouble? Ever? I haven't... and I know people who've "done it for years" etc. I hate doing things that are not above board, but I keep getting asked to do wedding cakes for big places like convention centers etc--so we're not talking back yard receptions. I'm really hesitant about showing up at a big area reception center with a home-made cheesecake and just setting up like I own the place...I want to be able to give out cards and be professional, but I don't want them to start asking "where'd this come from?"...I hate that feeling like I'm doing something subversive by making a bride a cake. The ones I've worked with fully know my situation and haven't cared. And no one I've ever talked to around here, including catering halls and kitchen managers, seems to have the slightest clue that you can't bake at home here...


So--Anyone ever ACTually been "in trouble with the law" so to speak, or honestly know of anyone who has?? I can't sleep tonight worrying about a cheesecake coming up...

help...

Since reading the business threads, I have decided that I want to do cakes from home too. Nothing big, just birthday and shower cakes, maybe a wedding cake or two. Just 1-3 cakes a week for extra $$. I don't want to "go into business" since decorating is a hobby of mine and if I did it professionally, I don't know if I would enjoy it anymore. Anyway, I have been thinking about the exact same thing you are thinking about, I'm terrified of "breaking the law" just to make a few extra bucks a month! I also don't want to have to pay $ to get licensed, go through inspections, maybe have to rent a place to decorate when I may actually take a loss doing this. I figure it's great practice for me, and could be profitable as well. I have sold a couple cakes before, but I think I undercharged both times. I am glad I found this site though, I have learned so much just in the short time I have been a member of this board.

I'm not licensed, have no idea how to get licensed here, but I have to say that my customers don't seem to care and have never asked! I offer something that is only available in a few places COUNTRYWIDE , so that they are just pleased to have found the 'exclusivity' of what I do ! I think the trouble would come if something you made made someone sick - that's when the Health Dept. would be sure to come knocking on your door. I make sure I observe high levels of hygiene and use the freshest ingredients to minimise the risk of that happening. I also refridgerate everything I make up until the last minute to help with this too (where the size of the finished cake allows - I've been known to empty my fridge out just to do this !). Good luck, I'm sure you'll be fine!

In today's society where ppl love to sue and get free money it is too risky to operate illegally. I am legal, and carry liability insurance on top of that. I personally have not gotten into any trouble but I know a home baker in a town about 2 hrs from here got turned in by an angry customer who found out it was illegal to bake from home. She got a fine of close to $5k and was told to stop. When it happened the other health depts in other counties sent the word out that home baking for $ was not allowed and they would be buckling down. IDK if any1 else got in trouble or not. Isn't Earlene who got turned in by a competitor as well when she got started?

If you are doing things for friends and family without making $, but if u r running a business its illegal. If u r knowingly running an illegal business you can get it in trouble. Like with anything else that is done illegally u may not get caught and get in trouble but it is still illegal. The laws are in place for a reason, and if u r getting so much business it will b in your best interest to get legal. You are also putting other businesses who sell or have your products there in harms way if you are not legal.

Most ppl have no clue it is not legal to bake from home and they buy your stuff with no issue, but all it takes is 1 irrate mean person to find out its not legal and your sunk.

Its the not the health department that would make me nervous...(the health department doesn't even control our home bakeries..the dept of agriculture does for some reason!). Its the tax department that I would worry about. In NC, you are required to charge 7% tax on every cake you sell and then file it quaterly. I don't know how other states are, though. That was my main focus on becoming legal...and I sleep better at night for doing so!

The laws vary so much from state to state. When I lived in Indiana, I knew a lady that sold her WONDERFUL tea rings at a festival. People literally lined up to get them every year and she sold out of SEVERAL hundred. Well, one of the smalltown bakeries found out she wasn't licensed and turned her in. She was fined $1500 and told to find another kitchen.

She paid her debt and baked them in her church the next year. Lesson learned. My sister built a house with a second kitchen after that and became legal. She didn't want to risk it.

so true, KakesandKids.

the county I'm in is "sue happy." one woman was sued and not only her...but the school district as well because her baked goods made some children sick. she wasn't licensed or inspected. she and district LOST. so now, any baked goods for schools must come from only licensed bakery.

thankfully, my state is easy to get licensed...but even so...
--must be inspected.
--need liability insurance (not a must, but stupid not to have and not all that expensive -- mine is under $50/yr)
--must have all necessary zoning permits and business licenses.
--HIGHLY recommended to also get a food handlers certification from local health dept. and for extra measure "ServSafe" certification to show you know proper sanitation and food handling regulations

it's NOT worth the risk not to do it right -- just one disgruntled customer -- or worse one angling for a quick buck (think of the case like this you've heard on the news) -- and everything could be gone.

Doug....school districts in this area have also adopted the policy that no baked goods from home are allowed. It is unfortunate that parents can't bake cookies or cupcakes for their kids classes, but these days every1 has to be careful.

Doug, where did find liability insurance for $50.00 a year? The few places that I've priced have been at least $200/year.
Leslie

my insurance is an extension to my homeowners policy since I'm classified as low-volume home-based business (6 or so cakes a week). I have $300K in extra liability. My agent felt that is enough for now.

I'm with State Farm Insurance, which will do home businesses.

(and as luck would have it, my agent's aunt is a cake decorator in a different county. So I got no farther than "cake decorating" before he rolled his eyes and said he knew just what I needed.)

Thanks for info Doug! I've got to check with company our homeowner's insurance is with now. We're going to change companies, I think.
Leslie

You all have just opened my eyes. I got a note at the beginning of school last year saying that no one could bring in home baked goods which almost made me cry seeing as this is a major part of my life! I asked the teacher why this was and she had no idea. I now see what a big liability that could be. Thanks!

The school board I taught for before I had my babies had the same policy - no homemade treats. It was because of liability - you never know what someone's kitchen might be like. However, I taught in a low income school so I provided the treats for our class parties and I did make them myself. It didn't seem to be a big deal if teachers brought in homemade goodies but it was a big "no, no" for parents to do so. It makes me sad to think I won't be able to make cookies and cakes for my children to take to school once they reach that age. I can't stand the thought of having to get store bought treats!

Wow, this thread really makes me a little nervous. I knew all this, but reading it again makes me feel like a common criminal. I only make a few cakes a year, but I do get paid for them.

One thing I remember reading under another thread was that if you're running a home-based business and your home owner insurance carrier isn't aware of it, your policy may not cover a loss. So, let's say you have a fire and the insurance company does it's thing and finds out you were running a bakery from home without their knowledge. They can say too bad, but we're not covering it. Even if the fire had nothing to do with your business.

There are just sooo many things to consider here. Definitely getting sued is one of them. I don't think you'd have to worry 99% of the time, but it's just that one customer who may have a beef with you and who decides to report you or take you to court. Then it's over and I have to wonder if it was all worth it?. How many of us can afford the fines or a lawsuit?

I won't be running a business from home! I'd lose sleep at night thinking about all the things that could happen. Don't need that kind of stress in my life or in the lives of my family.

I sell in a different city than I live in but here, the city health inspector made it VERY clear that I could go ahead and advertise without the licensing but she would stop me from selling cakes in this city if I dared to attempt it. She really does her job and as far as I know, nobody bakes from home here anymore because they have heard how difficult they have made it for "homebakers".

The city I sell in doesnt waste time either. One instance, a woman not too far from me was told to pack up and go home because the health inspector came around and made rounds and found out that her pies where made from home. Apparentely, she also got fined $750. The promoter at the venue I sell at has even stated that they dont put up with any crap around here and that the city holds everyone accountable on the same page from 5 star restaruants to my small bakery booth.

What I can tell you is that when I was looking around for a kitchen to use, I was told by the owner of a kitchen that the State of TX has been known to browse in cake supply shops and pick up biz cards for those who are advertising and not licensed and then slap them with a fine. Rumor has it that they also check out websites and message boards to snoop around for unlicensed cake makers as well.

I've run into catty people from doing shows and festivals and such that would love to get more biz by turning in homebakers. They feel it is their "responsibility" to turn these people in because why shouldnt they have to pay for the licensing and such just like everybody else? Personally, for a couple hundred bucks for a license, tax id (free), and permits, I have peace of mind and it is well worth it.

puppyloveconfections - I'm in Tx too - what is the licensing process and how expensive is it? How much do you have to pay to rent the kitchen?

Okay...so what constitutes it as a "business"? Since my friends have been seeing cakes I have done, they want me to do some for birthdays, baby showers, etc. I would never want to own a business in the true sense of the word. For now, I have been doing the cakes and making that my gift. If I were to get paid for the supplies, technically I am not selling a cake, correct?

I am in California, the toughest state ever, so I have no hope of getting licensed.

In California, trading a home baked product for money is selling home baked goods. IF they catch you, or someone complains, there are consequences. One unsatisfied customer is all it would take.

Lots of interesting points here; I appreciate all your input.

For now I haven't had luck finding anywhere to rent. There are actually 2 incubator kitchens in my area (region?), but they are both at least 30 minutes away in opposite directions.

I am spending some time now getting building plans, and DH is going to contact a contractor friend of ours to start construction this fall, hopefully.

Until then, I have a wedding next week, and then I don't actually have any more orders anyway (except a retirement party for our friend/neighbor that I'll probably do for free or cost), so I'm just going to continue at home at present and sort of (ugh) hope I don't have any more orders from strangers until I get built.

Getting through to the proper departments to even GET the info you need can be a challenge, let me tell you. You get no help from our health dept, except to say "We don't license home kitchens" and you can not get through to planning and zoning or even get a call back from them because they are swamped with so much new growth here.

I'm enjoying my surfing for info on commercial kitchen construction, though. Maybe I'll start a new post about size to build and wish-list info for a kitchen, so I don't miss something.

RaRaRabyn...I wish I could leave. I thought I talked hubby into it two years ago, but he wouldn't just quit his job and move...something about responsibilities?!?! Then he got a promotion and I knew I was sunk.

Maybe my next husband will let me move away...

I just have to comment on this thread because I have struggled with this for years myself. Only other decorators like us can understand the enduring passion we have for creating and sharing such beautiful, edible works of art. It doesn't take long before someone notices and wants to pay you to do something for them. If you are going to do this, do keep it small - I would be very selective about who you sell to and definitely avoid any corporate orders. I know one caterer who suggested gift certificates instead of an actual payment of her work. However, you are still taking a big risk! And while those people who tell you to just do it mean well, they're not going to have to pay the fines. I'm in the process of putting in a licensed kitchen (about $7,000), and one of the inspectors told me about an unlicensed woman in the area who sold a wedding cake - well, something went wrong in her process because the pastor and a few guests ended up in the hospital. He said she lost her house over the law suits and is still paying for the liability. And it's very likely eventually someone will get angry for one reason or another and turn you in. This might take a while, however (and fortunately). I just visited a woman who has a licensed kitchen for making chocolates - a competitor even tried to get her in trouble w/the inspectors even though she was licensed (the chocolate lady won).

Good luck - I totally emphathize with what you're going through! I sure wish the limits were higher ... like $2,000. They just don't understand how addicted we are and that we NEED to produce this stuff!

I have baked and decorated cakes for $$$ for almost 20 years, in my own kitchen at home. This and another thread have intrigued me. I have never been licensed or gotten a permit or whatever. Nor have I ever gotten even one complaint from a client, some of which have been my clients for more than 15 years.

So, in light of the question, I have just spent the evening trying to discover whether my state(Arkansas) will license/permit home-based bakeries. And I found essentially nothing. It is all very confusing.

I know a few local people who bake cakes in their own kitchens to sell, but I am not going to rock anyone's boat by asking questions of them. One Arkansas woman is a member here. She has an elaborate website which offers both cakes and decorating supplies for sale. She even has a 1-800-phone number. And as far as I know, she still does all her baking and decorating in her own home kitchen. So I am not sure just exactly what is required here in Arkansas.

::happy dance::

(oops...knocked over the lamp....am I covered?!)

glad to hear it worked out so well for you!!!!

I live in SOuthern California and a friend of mine had a licensed wedding business catering food.
She had an oven and sink and all health dept. required items built in her garage in plaace of one of the spaces for a car. It was enclosed with plywood and had a seperate door. This was 10 years aog though.
I understand there are things you need to do even if you don't have employees like provide an employee locker etc. in addition to the general safety requirements.

Can you pay a restaurant or church to use their licensed kitchen?