Hey guys and gals,

I know it's not okay to reproduce an image, though a lot of people do. But I read on a gal's sight that you can make a (very) similar one if you change it a tad bit. (My words) Like there was a Thomas the train cake and as far as I can tell, it was just the number that was changed.

Is this legal? Can you get in trouble for this? I think I read somewhere that it has to be at least a 20% difference in appearance. (Whatever that means!?) Like how would you determine if there is enough difference!? Just curious to know what you all think.

Please, nobody freak out! I think some people can get upset about this one.

Here's how it would work: Say you sell a Thomas the Tank Engine cake with a different number on it. Whoever owns the copyright finds out sues you. You end up before a jury. The opposing attorney takes a picture of your "Thomas" with the different number and asks the jury what it looks like. If they say "Thomas the Tank Engine", then you lose. If it's at all recognizable...you lose.

The people who think they are safe by just changing one detail are not safe and are really playing with fire. I would hate to see someone lose their financial security or their home because of this. The fine for each occurrence is $50,000, not something us cake people can generally afford!

Thanks kelleym,

I'm glad you spoke up. That's kind of what I thought. I wasn't sure if there was any truth in it. (But was hoping!) Just wanted someone to clarify.

You see SO many people doing it, so I guess people just think it's okay.
I think us newbies just haven't been informed in black and white. We just get excited about all the possibilites of cake decorating and go nuts!

Thank you for your concern, and I appreciate you being straight forward.

Thanks!

There are still lots of possibilities for cake decorating First, it's only copyright infringement if you *sell* the image. So if you're doing it for your child's birthday, your niece, best friend, whatever, if it's free, you can do whatever you want (I made a Backyardigans cake for my son last year-- tons of fun!).

Also, there are really cute ways of doing cakes "around" a copyrighted theme. I recently did a "Cars" cake for a customer where she purchased the Lightning McQueen and Mater and placed them on the cake I made. I'll attach it here so you can see what I'm talking about, since the gallery is down. Her son still got the Cars cake he wanted, and I won't get sued by Disney.

kelleym,

Thank you for helping to show us a way that we can still use our favorite guys, without breaking the law.

So when we would like to move forward and begin selling, we won't have to worry!

I like how this cake turned out great, without having to compromise creativity!

Plus a woman who has been in this business for YEARS and owns a shop told me that Disney sends people around to check on this. I asked, "Even all the way to Indiana?" Yep!!!! It's not the money to them .... it's the integrity of their character-product.

I tried to research some copyright stuff on the 'net because of this post and found a few articles confirming that ..... it's not the money that's the issue. They just want it known that someone will NOT use their characters without the proper license.

I am very firm with my customers that I will not reproduce a copyrighted image. The only way I will get a copy righted character on my cake is with a toy or edible image that has been purchased and approved by the company (gotta love the wal-mart toy isle)

What frustrates me more is when i tell customers that I can not do a specific cake because it is copyrighted character I get the "And how in the world are they going to know? You're going to eat the cake"

So are they going to take responsibility if for any reason someone sees a picture of the cake? Are they going to pay the $20,000-$50,000 fine and say "I wanted the cake done so I'll take responsiblity" Umm... NO!

Sorry just went through this again yesterday with Family members! and it is a little frustrating.

I know there are plenty of "cake ladies" and even a couple of licensed shops that will violate copyright in my area. Some of them actually advertise that they will match your character invitations.

I personally wouldn't chance it. No copyrighted characters will be made by me.

Ok, so I'm a newbie and now I'm really concerned about this. What about FBCT? I just did my first one this past weekend and it was from an image that I found online. Are those illegal? If it is a book/coloring book put out by them can we use them or not?

If you will be getting money (or bartering goods/services, for that matter) for the cake, you can't use the image, even from a coloring book.

Thanks for the reply, and sorry to hijack your thread!

It is possible that those who advertise they can do the images have obtained the proper licensing to be able to do so.

Don't even mess with this stuff...the others are correct about the fines.
And, NO, it doesn't matter if you change it up "a bit" if anyone can even remotely look at it and say "gee that kinda, sorta, maybe, looks like Winnie-The-Pooh" it is copyright infringement.
The character pans have pictures of the only way you are "allowed" to decorate them. That's even why there is a color called "Winnie-the-Pooh Gold". If you see a picture in the Wilton Yearbook - that has also been approved by Disney. Wilton goes through a lot to get approval for what you see. The cake room may have to redo these many, many times until they are able to make Disney happy enough to give their stamp of approval.
One last thing (at least for now - I usually come up with more after I'm done ranting ) is a question I've seen quite a lot...NO you are not supposed to use a "Character" pan for anything except its intended purpose. You can not use the Elmo pan and make him into something else. Technically you are using a copyrighted image to profit (the pan is still shaped like Elmo) and it is not allowed in any way shape or form. Now you may ask yourself "how would anyone know"? They may not...then again they may.
Okay just one more thing: I knew someone years ago who was bragging about her (character and others) cakes while slamming someone else's. A lady overheard the conversation and asked for her name and number under the guise of needing a cake. The lady's sister worked for one of these empires (I won't say which one) with a copyrighted character. Needless to say word of mouth can be a bad thing and that person doesn't do cakes anymore among other things.
So again...explain to customers why you can't afford the consequences of doing these and let it go...or like the others said: you can decorate the cake generically and LET THE CUSTOMER place the figures on the finished product. The customer paid for the rights to use the toy for their personal use.
Okay - that's all...or is it....

Okay...sorry...one more thing...you can tell if someone has paid for the rights if they have a book of images from which to choose. I've heard some ticked off people say "well Dairy Queen will do that one" when they're in Baskin Robbins. Dairy Queen has paid for rights to certain images and BR has paid for others. They also are not allowed to deviate from the pre-designed images. So a customer can't say "I like this one but could you change it ________"? The answer is "NO" it has to be duplicated exactly.
Call me Arnold 'cuz "I'll Be Back".............

so would a cake like my dale jr cake be copyright infringment???? Or is it just the characters that the toy co. and the movie people own?!?!?!?! I didn't make any money off of it cuz it was for my hubby, but Just wondering cuz I've had people as if I can do Jimmy Johnson and Jeff Gordon....So before I say yea I want to know if they count???? Thanks

i do them for family for free like the wonder woman one for my sister

ive had customers call and ask to do so and so and i tell them sorry no can do..even a pepsi logo is copyrighted so i have refused those orders as well.

changing the colors or numbers doesn't matter. like the other cc member stated if it is recognizable as a particular character you have infringed on the copyright

hey indydebi...glad someone appreciates my rantings...
Arnold

does this mean if someone wanted a cake shaped like a bacardi bottle or a corona cake would this be infringing copywrite laws as well

is it with everything/?? for example if i wanted to a harley cake or a starbucks cup.... what a good thread i never knew about copyright laws..

i know that in the none cake world of portrait photography (i worked at sears and now at penneys) customers are forever asking if we have character backgrounds or character props and i tell them that we do not have the lisencing for those things but if they however want to bring in a blanket, sheet that can be hung as a background and their own personal props it's cool by us. we also aren't allowed to replicate certain things. my boss did a photo of a friend/coworker dressed in coveralls doing the rosie the rivoter pose and corporate refused to print it because they were afraid of copyright infringement. so i imagine that all the same copyright rules apply to cakes as portraits. (although i don't listen anyway, but then again i've never sold a cake, i've only given them as gifts or made them for fun)

So basically, you can decorate with something that is sold for decoration or you can let the customer add their own things, just design a cake for them, give the cake/cookies/etc away or run the risk of being sued?
And this applies to any type of corporate image that is copyrighted, unless you receive written permission or buy it. Right?

exactly!! i found out after i had done my suitcase cake that the I heart NY is copyrighted!!! so there are a lot of items that are copyrighted and you have to be careful.

if you purchase toys, you can add them on the cake because they were bought. i think its okay to buy the toys yourself and put them on the cake, but not 100 percent sure.

but this doesnt make sense, the gallery is full of copy righted material and Im pretty sure that all the gazillion photos of those cakes are not freebies.

You cannot sell the Wilton character cakes. They are labeled "for personal use only".

The galleries are full of copyrighted cakes, sure. I have several in there myself, all of which were gifts. Many people do not know the law, or sell the cakes in spite of it. Disney or the other copyright holders can't find every copyrighted cake, it's simply not possible. But it is still illegal and possibly financially devastating if you're caught.