here is my take..

you are 20 years old with no bills and no experience.

so the 50/50 split, while not ideal it's a start ..

a start to get you into the ground floor of learning this business.

I had a similar arrangement with one of the Pastry Chefs at school, and we kept it sort of looser though..like a month to month thing.

I did the specialty cakes and he did the pastries. He would tell me when he needeed to come in and I stayed out of his way..lol

I say go for it, since your name WILL be on some of the labels, do a 90 day to 90 day contract..

every 3 months you can he can sit down and hash out what is working and not working and then go from there. Just make sure that he doesn't force a "NON COMPETITIVE" clause down your throat...or you may not be able to open your business later on...

Good luck on your new ventures!

I have really enjoyed reading this post, and was riding the fence...couldn't decide if I liked this deal or not. I think it sounds good, but If it were for me, I would insist on splitting the cost of the cookie money too. the fact that he is making $$ off your work should be good enough. other than that, I wish I had an opportunity like that when I was your age, or even a few years ago. You can build your business while not paying huge rent, utilities, equipment and everything else it cost to own your own shop.

good luck and please let us know how this turns out!

melody

Agree with having some split on the cookies, if you can work it out. If not then a definite limited on the number of cookies or hors are appropriate to compensate the use of the kitchen, supplies and utilities. As someone mentioned...do some math in coming up with this agreement and don't commit to being able to make limitless amounts of the product that you "owe" in the arrangement.

Still worth pursuing!!!! You will be able to get a following of clients for future through their getting to know your quality product and you will have the benefit of not having high overhead...

You are in a good place, be fair to this baker also in making your agreement...

RUN!!! I just got out of a similar experience. It was a horrible HORRIBLE experience. Did I mention HORRIBLE? I would never do it again for anything.

My "partner" agreed to a 50/50 deal with a deli, and I would do my other business out of her kitchen that I would rent. I did all of my business apsect, and ended up doing ALL of the work for the 50/50 deal. All of the shopping, all of the prepping, and all of the cooking. People loved my work. (Unless you own 50% of every aspect of the business, you are not truelly a 50/50 parner) She eventually grew resentful of my business, and began treating me horribly. Very abusive. I began to hate going into work to do what I loved doing. I ended up moving my business, and still have to put up with a lot of crap from her, BUT what's mine is mine and I don't have the mental abuse, anguish, or stress.

It is much better this way.

I don't know what to tell you in this situation, but I wanted you to know what COULD happen. Not to say that it will happen to you, but it is a possibility.

and they say running your own business is easy..ha!
right...if it was..EVERYONE would be doing it! lol

sugarlove, you've definitely given me alot to think about. I think I may talk to a lawyer and definitely have a contract. Here are some things i've thought about:

I definitely want to be able to leave the business with my name and my designs to start my own business.

I am going to talk to him about getting a percentage of the cookies.

I'm going to look into getting a lawyer to sort all of this out.

Another thing is he doesn't really have a second option. I mean, I'm sure he can find another cake decorator in the area but he didn't hide the fact that he was head over heals in love with my work and kept saying things like "you can't find stuff like this in this town" & "I've never seen anyone else selling this around here"

I was afraid earlier that if I tried to negotiate too much he might just say never mind. But now i'm thinking that he will be much more willing to budge because, if not, then he doesn't get my decorating style.

Right now I'm working on getting my licsense and going through the food handling course, now that I have a location. I definitely don't want to run away from this oppurtunity, I'm very excited about it but I want to make sure there is either a employer/employee situation or business/business type deal like sugarlove said. He's is a very kind family guy I think we can work something out. He is very happy that I called him and happy with what I have to offer and I know that he doesn't want to lose this oppurtunity either.

Are you talking about 50% of the cookies you do or his cookies? I'm confused.......

You have put a lot of thought into this. I think this is a great starting point, but there is one thing you always need to remember....You have a very specialized talent. Eventhough your experience level is not as high as you feel it needs to be, you have something to offer him that he does not currently have. That means you are worth something. Don't be afraid to come back with a counter offer. Shoot high. He may come back with a counter offer, but that's okay. At least then he will know that he can't take advantage of you and you will have a working relationship.

LOL - after reading all of 'Sugarloves' posts, I realize how clueless I am business-wise...thanks for all those points that never occured to me!

it' so weird that i found this post. an almost exact situation happened to me. i work at a bakery doing cake prep. i had a cookie business before i started there. i was doing them out of my house while going to culinary school(4/25...last day). so because i wasn't legal, i didn't advertise..only word of mouth. but for me working, going to school and having 5 kids, i was getting all the orders i could handle
anyways, after winning the local newspaper cookie contest, the bakery became very interested in my cookies. they had done some not so decorated cookies, but really wanted to expand. so, they offer me this "wonderful opportunity" i could set up their cookie program, kinda being a department head, kinda. they would pay me 4 hours extra to work at home doing research. well, i have always wanted to eventually open my own place. so, naturally, i had a lot of questions. who owns the designs, if i make a cookie for you does that mean i can't use it, what kinds of things can i order, how much more will i be getting paid..... after meeting with the big guy, i think he was almost insulted that i wasn't jumping on this chance. he wasn't sure why i even had questions. right now i'm only making $10 an hour. theyr said after things got going maybe they could take me to 11.50. wow!! long story, i turned them down. i didn't want to set up their business and then they decided they didn't need me anymore, they'd have all my designs and work put in. then when i tried to go into business, i'd essentially be competing against myself. i'm far from 20 years old. i don't have nearly as much time to recover, if i had to.
i think the one or two month trial thing is a good idea. definately get everything in writing. and don't sell yourself short. you're adding a lot to his business. make sure you're taken care of

As an independent contract worker with my former employer I have to pay back to the gov 1/3 of my yearly earnings for taxes. It was a shock when I found that out. In some cases it hardly makes it worth my working for them. Just inthe gas I I use to drive in to town to work part time. If I didn't love doing what I do, and doing less now, it wouldn't be worth it. Just a thought.

Thanks for the clarification. You're cookies are beautiful and you should definately get at least 50% for them. Good luck!

Wow those are gorgeous but also very detailed cookies how long would they take you to do? you will need to consider your time.

I have read all the posts and everyone raises some really good points. Would it be possible to simplify things a bit where the business is still yours (own name and all the other legal stuff, own ingredients etc) but he is just your landlord and the rent is "x" decorated cookies a week, he can then sell those particular decorated cookies for whatever he wants to and you are free to do your cakes & other things without him having any creative, pricing or other control?

just a thought.... good luck with whatever you decide

Oh I'm not sure If I mentioned it or not, I custom made the cookie cutters for the cookies above.

Well I just wanted to thank everyone for all of your information. You've been SO HELPFUL!!!! I have another meeting with him next week, I will keep you updated.

What about rights to your designs and creations. If he learns how to recreate your product and you branch off in a couple of years to start your own business, will he claim those designs and creations as his own and refuse you the right to make them in your own shop?

I am having a meeting with a restaurant in my town next week also. It sounds like the owner wants to add confections to his restaurant and candy store. After thinking about it, I have decided the only way to do this is by giving him signature cakes and desserts for his shop.

Can you do that? Create certain cake designs and cookie designs for just his shop. Then you can still do your own thing and keep people wanting to come to you for your custom work? Even if you are only twenty, it sounds like you don't have bills. Take your money and practice. Maybe you could rent kitchen space from him for orders that were not for his shop? That way he has signature cakes and cookies and you still have a potential business in a couple of years....

JMHO

One of the thing you guys made me think about over the past few days is the rights to my designs. To me thats the most important thing. I'm putting in the contract that that when I leave, I leave with all of my designs and my pictures watermarked with my name. I don't think he'll be crazy about that idea, but I'm not losing my designs

It sounds to me like he will use your creations to better his own business.

He pays for the ingredients but he also gets 50% of the profits and his shop gets the credit. Basically you will be his employee.

Make darn sure that he is not entitled to your recipes...creations..the photos of anything you make while at his shop..etc...

If you take recipes there make sure you take them home. Do not leave them there.

Make sure you have a list of equipment you take there and add to it if you buy more. Make sure he signs that inventory list when it changes.

You have to be very careful!!! He may think you are a 20 year old air head and that he can take advantage of you and your naivete'.

If he draws up and agreement pay an atty or an account or both to look it over.

When something sounds too good to be true it usually is.

Hi Daniellemhv,

Just a suggestion. If you are bringing in you own equiment, engrave your Driver's Licence number with state on EVERYTHING (mixer's, bowls, pans, etc). Somewhere on the bottom so it is not an eyesore. That way there is no mistake it is yours, and in case anything is stolen and retreived it can be returned back to you.

Also, I would set-up your contract on a 3-month, 6-month, 1-year, etc time-period that way it can be revisted and revised if something should be changed to better suit you or him.

Good luck to you.

Get a contract written up...Find a pro bono lawyer or someone that can really read fine print...and don't be afraid to bargain or tell him how u feel...it sounds like a good deal...but he could be one of those sly ppl...that can manipulate others to get what they want...good luck...

You might want to try to look into things about business partnerships in books at B&N. The kind I think he is talking about may be limited partnership and there could be some more pros and cons to him selling your stuff under his name. There could also be some problems for you if he doesn't do well. Check out what you are intitled to in this situation and be more aware befor you get into it. That way you don't get sunk knee deep and can't get out, protect yourself is what I'm saying. You are young but don't let him view you as dumb. Sometimes people take advantage of that. This way you might even be able to negotiate what prices YOU would like for your cakes and cookies.
It does sound like a nice deal! I just wouldn't want you to get into anything where you wouldn't get anything out of it!
GOOD LUCK!

Also, I know this is not a Small Business start-up for you but the SBA (Small Business Association - www.sba.gov) has all kinds of information for indivduals. In most major cities and smaller cities they have a SBDC (Small Business Development Center) and they are funded by the Goverment to provide assistance. They have a library that you can use and you can set-up an appointment with their employees which are there to help you at no cost. They can be used to review Business Plans, and I'm sure they can provide more legal information about your partnership venture.

Check out this link to see if you have one near your city:

http://www.sba.gov/aboutsba/sbaprograms/sbdc/index.html

Sorry for so many post but here is an excerpt from:

http://www.sba.gov/smallbusinessplanner/plan/getready/serv_mark_getinstartd.html

Scroll down until you find Partnership.



Partnership

There are several types of partnerships. The two most common types are general and limited partnerships. A general partnership can be formed simply by an oral agreement between two or more persons, but a legal partnership agreement drawn up by an attorney is highly recommended. Legal fees for drawing up a partnership agreement are higher than those for a sole proprietorship, but may be lower than incorporating. A partnership agreement could be helpful in solving any disputes. However, partners are responsible for the other partner's business actions, as well as their own.

A Partnership Agreement should include the following:

Type of business.

Amount of equity invested by each partner.

Division of profit or loss.

Partners compensation.

Distribution of assets on dissolution.

Duration of partnership.

Provisions for changes or dissolving the partnership.

Dispute settlement clause.

Restrictions of authority and expenditures.

Settlement in case of death or incapacitation.

I would not touch this without a lawyer. Tell the lawyer exactly what you want and let him do the negotiating for you. If this guy is straight up, he won't mind working with your lawyer. If he frowns at the lawyer idea, then get out of it. But absolutely nothing without a contract!

Lu

I honestly don't believe his is willing to part ways by giving someone half of his business. Were talking about someone who already have a licensed bakery that I'm sure he invested over $30,000 in to become legal build his kitchen and establish his business, etc... why partner with someone who hasn't invested as much time and money into his business just to offer or add a product or service they he didn't offer previously. He would have to change and add her name to everything including notifying the IRS of the entity classification change and add her onto the tax id application and partnership tax returns. She just hasn't invested what he has already into his business for him to justify doing that. She stated he only mentioned spliting the wedding cake sales 50/50 that's it. Not becoming a partner and spliting the business revenue, assests, and liabilities 50/50 now that would be a true partnership. I think their relationship would be far from a partnership but more of an employer/employee or business to business if she so chooses to go that route.

If she is more concern with the copyrights to the designs...which I've seen some of those designs before so I'm not totally sure how that would work but for those designs that are truly custom and unique to her then should be a copyright agreement in place. However, if she will be working under his business name then I'm not sure how it would work...although you created them they were created under his business name....things you really need to consult with an attorney about.

I don't think you are looking at a partnership. What you want to ask a lawyer about is a contract agreement specifically stating the agreement about the sale of cakes and cookies, your name and how it is used, who pays for what, how long the trial period will be, what happens when you want to leave, etc. As Sugarlove stated, he is not going to relinquish any part of his investment for a partnership.

Diane

Here is my idea...why not print off all the replies to your post, go through them and hi light all the information that you think is pertinent to your situation and when you meet with him ask him these questions. There are FAR too many GREAT questions here to remember them all. You said he was a good guy, but that is maybe how he got as far as he did in his business (like someone said on here) he could be schmoozing you to get what he wants, if he is as nice and that is the case, the number one question to him is: can I contact a lawyer and number two is how do you feel about a contract? If he is willing, then go from there, if not I think he answered the rest of your questions! I think that cake central is just amazing, that so many people are will to help - or put their two cents in and I think that because of this forum you are more knowledgable going into this deal. Good luck to you, here is my two cents!!! Sue