Fondant Mystery

Decorating By nola Updated 25 Nov 2005 , 6:43pm by Cakepro

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nola Posted 20 Nov 2005 , 6:55pm
post #1 of 16

On Wednesday I made my own birthday cake. It was my first time working with Satin Ice fondant(Dark Chocolate) & chocolate ganache.
I filled & crumb coated with the ganache. The cake wasn't cut until Thursday, no problem.
Here's the mystery....by Friday the under side of fondant had melted with the ganache coating. Does any one have a clue on what happen?????

15 replies
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meghan89 Posted 20 Nov 2005 , 7:00pm
post #2 of 16

I think I am going to have the same problem and I am frightened!!!! I made two cakes not last night but the night before and they will be eaten today. I think the problem is that if there is moisture from say ganache or buttercream, eventually, if the cake sits long enough, the fondant and moisture react with eachother, and the fondant gets kinda gooey and slimy!!!

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TickledPink Posted 20 Nov 2005 , 8:37pm
post #3 of 16

I think it's supposed to do that, it's not supposed to stay hard, I've heard it described as it "melts" into the next layer.

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auzzi Posted 23 Nov 2005 , 8:19am
post #4 of 16

Rolled fondant or sugarpaste will dissolve in the presence of buttercream or ganache.

The only purpose of buttercream etc under rolled fondant is to "glue" the cake covering to the cake. It is neither a secondary icing nor is it an alternative icing for people who don't like rolled fondant.

Originally, the "glue" was either simple syrup or strained apricot glaze - this "stuck" the rolled fondant to the fruitcakes it was formulated to cover. Too much of these will also cause it to dissolve also. Later, as the cakes to be covered expanded to include buttercakes, pound cakes etc, decorators saw the advantage of buttercream etc. It "glued" also!

The thicker the layer of buttercream under the rolled fondant, the quicker it will dissolve.

Goopy rolled fondant is not really a good advertisment for your cake decorating, or for rolled fondant.

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Cakepro Posted 23 Nov 2005 , 6:03pm
post #5 of 16

Directly contradictory to what auzzi said, I always put a regular coat of buttercream icing on the cakes that I cover with fondant...both as a secondary icing as well as an adherent. Even when the fondant is added a day or two in advance of the event, the exterior of the fondant does not break down, but where the buttercream touches it, the interior of the fondant is somewhat soft. This does not affect the cake in any way, taste-wise or appearance-wise.

I add a small bead of piping gel or strained apricot glaze to the bottom of the cake (about 1" up from the cake board) for the "glue" as I have found that buttercream often does not allow the fondant to adhere as well as I would like...especially in its chilled state.

~ Sherri


ps...I've been doing it this way for 8 years. icon_smile.gif

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PerryStCakes Posted 23 Nov 2005 , 6:20pm
post #6 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cakepro



I add a small bead of piping gel or strained apricot glaze to the bottom of the cake (about 1" up from the cake board) for the "glue" as I have found that buttercream often does not allow the fondant to adhere as well as I would like...especially in its chilled state.





Cakepro - do you brush the glaze/piping gel 1" up over the buttercream layer?

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Cakepro Posted 23 Nov 2005 , 6:24pm
post #7 of 16

Yes, I just smear it with a spatula so it's about an inch-wide stripe around the perimeter of the cake, about an inch up from the cake board (on top of the buttercream). I use the spatula because the pastry brush would mess up the buttercream (been there, done that icon_biggrin.gif). icon_smile.gif

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peacockplace Posted 23 Nov 2005 , 6:27pm
post #8 of 16

I think here in the states people haven't really come around to the taste of fondant like they have in other countries. They love the look here, but not usually the taste. For that reason I do a thick layer of butter cream under the fondant. I find people here want it all... the look of fondant and the taste of BC.

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itsacake Posted 23 Nov 2005 , 6:30pm
post #9 of 16

I haven't been doing this for very long, but I agree with Cakepro. I almost always put a thin layer of IMBC under my fondant. Often I use chocolate buttercream under white fondant. Even a couple of days later (or a few, if I have leftovers) I've never had slimy or gooey fondant as long as I didn't refrigerate the cake. The fondant is always somewhat harder on the outside, where it is exposed to air, but that is as it is supposed to be, as far as I know. It doesn't seem to act substantially differently than when I've done it over marzipan or plain cake with syrup or jam for the "sticky."

Even my British cake books often say to coat the cake with buttercream under the fondant, so it is apparently viewed as a fine way to do things in England as well as the US, I'm not sure what you are saying, Auzzi. Just not to use the buttercream too thickly, or are you suggesting not to use it at all?

Cakepro, I thought I read on Baking911 that piping gel will melt fondant. I guess your experience would show that isn't true. Have you used one specific brand of piping gel or various kinds?

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Cakepro Posted 23 Nov 2005 , 7:07pm
post #10 of 16

I use the Wilton piping gel, not because I'm brand-loyal, but because I was not able to do successful piping gel/pattern transfers using CK piping gel. I don't know why, but it would not stick to the cake, so I never bought another tub of it. It might have been a fluke; that was many years ago.

I also do stained-glass detailing with piping gel on fondant-covered cakes, and it's never melted it. Knock on wood, LOL!

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SquirrellyCakes Posted 25 Nov 2005 , 2:48am
post #11 of 16

Well, when it comes to discussions about fondant, I always bow to Auzzi as the expert. I think what she is saying is that the purpose of the buttercream is to act as a glue and so to go very thin with it or risk the buttercream breaking down the fondant. I have found that to be true just as puttting really thin decorations of fondant on top of a buttercream iced cake will eventually make your decorations get gloopy.
I think the issue in Canada and the U.S. is people want the look of fondant but not the texture or necessarily the taste. So people are using it as a covering and removing it and that is why they are really putting the buttercream on thickly underneath. Personally, haha, I can't see the point of wasting the fondant. But I would have to agree that putting the buttercream on very thinly is the more proper way to do it, the more accepted way in countries where fondant covering of cake originated and was perfected. And the Australians are known for their expertise in this medium. And they are very particular about how this is done also.
Hugs Squirrelly
The fondant should also be rolled to about 1/4 inch thick which also helps minimalize the effect of the buttercream underneath it or rather gives it more time to ward off the effect of the breakdown caused by the fat or grease of the buttercream. And we are talking about rolled fondant here, not marshmallow fondant.

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itsacake Posted 25 Nov 2005 , 8:01am
post #12 of 16

What SquirrellyCakes said is just what I meant. I always do the buttercream thin and roll the fondant about 1/4 inch thick. I never have any problems. I don't expect the fondant to be taken off either. It is too expensive to use just to throw it out.

Squirrelly Cakes, I always love your posts. After I read them I think "Why couldn't I have what Squirrelly said?"

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SquirrellyCakes Posted 25 Nov 2005 , 5:17pm
post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsacake

What SquirrellyCakes said is just what I meant. I always do the buttercream thin and roll the fondant about 1/4 inch thick. I never have any problems. I don't expect the fondant to be taken off either. It is too expensive to use just to throw it out.

Squirrelly Cakes, I always love your posts. After I read them I think "Why couldn't I have what Squirrelly said?"



Haha kiddo, trust me, you don't want to go there, sometimes everything I say comes out wrong.
I was just re-reading this and wasn't sure how it came across. When I said, "the more proper way' perhaps that sounds a bit snobbish. But what I meant is that in this as with all things, there are certain manners and methods that are taught to be the standards. Not that other ways won't work because they will with slightly different results. but I have come to recognize that Auzzi is an expert in the art of fondant and has vast knowledge on the subject. She is known on a few sites as being an expert. She is describing the traditional way of using fondant to get the best surface and best texture afterwards.
It is interesting how with many of us, it is just considered a covering with which to get a certain effect, many don't give thought to anyone actually eating it.
If people go back and do a search of Auzzi's posts, she has given detailed instructions of smoothing and application of fondant and I believe recipes also. When I first went on the Wilton site I knew very little about fondant and I give her credit for educating me. At that time I had made fondant from a commercial recipe and played with it and covered a cake or two, but really had not much idea of methods or downfalls.
Hugs Squirrelly

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tye Posted 25 Nov 2005 , 5:29pm
post #14 of 16

i tend to make my fondant a bit thicker... its easier to handle and it wont "melt" into the bc... also, i chill my cake before i put the fondant on.. not sure if this helps in this situation but i havent had any issues thus far.. (knocking on everything around me)...

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SquirrellyCakes Posted 25 Nov 2005 , 5:55pm
post #15 of 16

I think the fondant thickness is a big factor. Traditionally it is rolled to 1/4 inch. But as people got into marshmallow fondant which they can roll very thin, there is a tendency for people to try to do this with regular rolled fondant. I have noticed that even some brands of fondant say to roll to 1/8 inch which really isn't thick enough when you are covering a cake.
Hugs Squirrelly

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Cakepro Posted 25 Nov 2005 , 6:43pm
post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by itsacake

I don't expect the fondant to be taken off either. It is too expensive to use just to throw it out.





LOL!

I charge double for fondant cakes and once delivered, it's theirs to do with as they please. icon_biggrin.gif

My customers and my friends/family love buttercream, but not all are fans of fondant...some eat it, some leave it. I don't expect anyone to eat it if they don't like it.

Personally, I'm not a fondant eater so I would never make cakes without a regular layer of buttercream. As long as the end result is a beautiful, delicious cake, who cares about "proper?" icon_smile.gif

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. thumbs_up.gif

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