I'm having a VERY frustrating time getting something as simple as BC roses to work properly.

I start with the little pointy blob on a square of wax paper, only about 3/4" high, so it's not a HUGE beast. I then start adding the first overlapped center petal and already the little blob starts showing signs of toppling over one way or the other. As I add more petals, the top starts to really waver to the point where it actually tips over and the other side has now fallen squarely onto the nail. The center of the rose is not pointing up but completely to the left.

Is it the consistency? I've made the BC rather stiff so the starting blob isn't really al that soft. In fact it's stiff enough that the rose petals have a decidedly "ruffled" edge, not smooth like in the demo pics. Is it the heat from my hand on the nail? I'm making a point of holding the nail as far down near the point as possible and really, I'm trying to move fast enough that there shouldn't be time to heat the nail head, I don't think. Yet the darn thing keeps flapping over on it's side.

Any recommendations (besides "Take the damn Wilton course already!"*) for what I might do to stop the toppling effect?

The ones I've managed to get to the end before they deteriorate completely don't seem to awful, but it sure isn't like it is shown in the video or in the pics here. I've tossed at least a dozen back into the pot (possibly more) before I had gathered these four "ok" ones.

* Well, it's Christmas and Michaels in our area doesn't seem to have added classes for December at this point. I'd be surprised if they did anyway since there's a whole week missing what with holidays and them being more interested in selling Xmas stuff.

hi there,
I am no pro at this, someone else out there may know exactly what is wrong but his is my take on it.
Your icing does look pretty darn stiff (but the ruffeled edges look neat ), so I think that maybe your "glob" isn't wide enough. In the Wilton classes they say to trace a dome on your flower needle and use that as a "template". Let it taper off a bit as you pull up.
As for your icing (I hope this makes sense) it should be stiff enough that if you were to stand a knife in the bowl of icing and gently shake the bowl the knife shouldn't move much. But it shouldn't be so stiff that you cramp your hand.
I really hope this makes sense and that it helps you - Im not sure what else could be wrong.

use a tip 12 for your glob....

God Luck !!!

I was just looking at your pic again and I think you may have too many layers... try just three layers plus the initial wrap around one.

About the heat from your hand through your needle, I don't think its that so much but your hand could be heating the bag of icing up

I took Wilton Course 1 & 2. and still have trouble with the rose! I also have trouble with the edges looking ruffled or broken. I have been told it could be that I am not turning the nail at the right speed or that I'm not using the right pressure on the bag. I've tried making the icing thinner and stiffer and doesn't seem to make much of a difference for me, except if the icing gets too soft it droops! Haven't had too much trouble with the center toppling over to the left though!

First of all, I think they look cool all shaggy and whatnot. I am by no means in the world an expert, but try making a few cones on the waxed paper and if they are getting droopy on you, throw them in the freezer. Pull one out as you need it. This may not be the most professional technique, but to me the most logical in a pinch. This way you have a more solid base to work with. That's my best guess. amy

I think you did a great job on your roses. I have the same issues that you do and it gets so frustrating that I just refuse to make roses. I have tried changing the consistency of my icing, practicing turning the nail...but it is always a flop.

One thing you might try is Cheryl's(ntertayme) buttercream roses on a stick. She has a tutorial for it. Many people say it is eaasier than using the nail.

I have trouble with roses too, but my instructor made little magnets to stick on the nail that we were to use to get the right size for our base. She traced a nickel (a Canadian one.....I'm from Ontario too!) coloured it black and then laminated it so it could be reused. The blob had to fill the black circle, that way we knew we were making the bases large enough to support the rose. You put the wax paper over the magnet template.

Don't know if this will solve your problem........

Good Luck!!

I read somewhere else that the center core should be one and a half times the height of the petal tip opening. I'm thinking that maybe both of us have the same problem......too small and narrow a base cone.

I am definitely no expert on roses, but what I do is make my bases and let them sit overnight to harden up a bit. The second day I add the petals, I have trouble with the ruffling too. If the petals are sagging, it sounds like you icing is not stiff enough. I use all shortening buttercream to make my roses. I think it is sturdier. I use 12 for the bases and 104 for the petals...Hope this helps you. I think it is just a matter of practice, which I haven't done lately. Good luck.

By the way, I think your roses really look good
Mine often have jagged edges also. Haven't had any complaints on them.

Hello I have to completely agree with your whole statement. I have taken the Wilton classes (two different times just to see if the instructions were any different) and my roses look like little heads of cabbage or carnations - kind of like in your picture.

In my opinion, it is all about the frosting. During the second class, I went with a friend and she had none of the issues with the roses !!!!! Hers always turned out just like the pictures and when she actually tried for a perfect rose, she got it. Sad thing is, one class I actually took her bag & tip (so I would be using her frosting) and I still got a little head of cabbage !!!! I have given up on them, trying only when / if I have any extra frosting to play around with.

But this is just my little opinion in this great big world

I can't do a rose for anything!! lol So, I feel your frustration..lol. But, personally, they look more realistic the way yours are. Roses come in so many different styles & shapes. Yours kind of look like another flower that I can't think of the name of right now...lol....a peony? camellia? not sure which it is that they remind me of....but I think they're beautiful!!

I have heard that if you add a little corn syrup to your icing, then it will cut down on the ruffled edges. Also, I have heard that if you keep in mind a Hershey's Kiss when you're making your cone, it will help.

Also, this forum might be helpful:

http://www.cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-10602-ruffle.html+roses

I have problems with the Wilton Rose too, I found the Victorian Rose way easier to do and prefer to work with tip 97 over 104 for the petals. Your base should be the same size and shape as a hershey kiss. When I first started until I figured my consistency and experience out, I used an actual hershey kiss for the base actually it was the white chocolate hugs and learned to do my petals right first. Just a couple of weeks ago I finally got my bases right and didn't need the kiss.

Hope this helps, don't give up try the other tip !!!

Ditto what gdixoncakes said. You probably need to thin your icing a little, and if you're still having problems with major ruffling, add a little corn syrup.

I had a hard time with mine toppling over in the beginning, even with the outline of the dime on my flower nail because although the very bottom of the base was the right size, the rest was too narrow. Nobody told us about the Hershey's kiss, but I always tried to make it look like a short squat triangle where the sides were approximately the same length as the base is wide, maybe just a little taller.

As you pull up from the bottom, try taking it about a millimeter at a time. Move your hand up a millimeter, hold and squeeze, move up a millimeter, hold, squeeze, repeat.

Good luck!

Take the damn Wilton course already. Better yet....forget the buttercream and learn fondant roses. Highly superior.

Someone once joked that I made about 1,000 cabbages before I made a rose, but I eventually got it. I don't use a cone, I make them on a toothpick. I make the center, then a little lower, I make three overlapping petals, then I do it again. I end with one long petal all the way around, and then I push wax paper up the toothpick to remove it.
I think your center should be higher and I also think you might be turning the nail too fast. That will break up the edges.
Keep practicing and you will get it. I remember being so frustrated, and then it just clicked. That will happen to you too, I'm sure. Don't give up!

Wow, what a lot of good tips! You guys are the cat's pajamas!

I'm kinda leaning that way (the fondant route). More control. Nicer end product. And you can charge more for 'em! Not that I'm ANYWHERE NEAR getting money for cakes yet.

However, I will persevere and give the BC roses another try or two, using the great tips offered above.

And when I start up fondant/gum paste flowers, I'll come and bug Phoov for help on those. Have you guys SEEN her flowers? Awesome.

Just a side note here on the ruffly edges as I was instructed to do from some others on this site...your tip may need to be opened just a tiny bit, like it's pinched too tight at the narrow end. I took a knife blade and used it, but be careful not to get it too wide.

Ok, Your icing may be a bit too thick but what I see is that your center petal and first petal isn't jagged. So, I think it may be your not doing the 3 important things to make a rose.
1. squeeze the bag
2. turn the nail
3.and rotate the nail
all 3 at the sme time
Also, start your first row with 3 petals (at 12:00), then 5(1:00)_ and last row 7 (2:00)

your icing should be stiff consistancy, bag at 45 angle and at 4:30(over the sholder

Does this make since??
PS I think they look nice if you don't like the jagged edge you can always pat them down gently with your finger

Wow!! crash course in Rose making!!!
Michelle

Rainbowz....the check's in the mail... LOL AND....you're quite ready to sell a cake.

I add a bit of piping gel to prevent my petals from getting the "cabbage leaf syndrome"

I had a bit of trouble in the summer with droopy centers too. I experimented and came up With 2 ways that worked for me.

1. Just use the coupler in the same method as the number 12 tip. Use a toothpick to cut off The little frill that forms.

OR.

2. Just use the 104 tip to make my base. Squeeze the bag And turn the nail at teh Same time. Once the base is wide enough continue building up to a tapered point. You can use a fingertip to tap it in to a smooth cone. Then you Are good to go.


I actually made my roses during class using the 3 different methods. Then I Asked my instructor with ones she preferred (w/o telling her which metod I used). She consistantly chose all the roses I made using method number 2.


The key is to experiment until you find something that works for you. It's always god To know more than one way because if one method fails tomorrow you have something else to use.

Princess

I remember when I took the Wilton course, they said that if you get cabbage looking roses, the angle of your bag isn't correct & the tip isn't close enough to the base. I struggle with the base sliding around as I put on the petals, or tipping over! Takes practice. I do better with the Kiss as a base

hiya kids,
Well, when I first started makin bc roses I had the same prob my center got all wobbly and the roses slumped. I finally learned (the hard way) that I really needed to pack that center good n dense.
Let the icing from the bag ( o heck how can i splain this) ummmm, blob up around the tip as you are piping the center (gotta make it dense). I also only use the 104 to make my roses.
I really liked the idea of letting the centers firm up before piping the petals on it.
Kudos to ya'll