Can't Believe I Am Asking About Cake Mix

Decorating By alicegop Updated 18 Feb 2007 , 3:15am by Loucinda

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alicegop Posted 15 Feb 2007 , 2:57pm
post #1 of 24

I use cake mix, always get RAVE reviews about how the cake is the best they've ever had (frosting from scratch) and I am not picky about which brand I use and I don't dr. it.

However, I am wanting to branch out in selection so I am actually considering doing some from scratch (gasp!) icon_surprised.gif

Question is
1) How does the cost of scratch compare to box. I pretty much always buy my boxes for $1 or less
2) TIME, that is the big thing for me, how much longer does it take to pull together a scratch cake than a mix?

23 replies
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rhondie Posted 15 Feb 2007 , 3:10pm
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I'd like to know too. And are there any scratch cakes that taste like box cakes?

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sweetamber Posted 15 Feb 2007 , 3:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alicegop

I use cake mix, always get RAVE reviews about how the cake is the best they've ever had (frosting from scratch) and I am not picky about which brand I use and I don't dr. it.

However, I am wanting to branch out in selection so I am actually considering doing some from scratch (gasp!) icon_surprised.gif

Question is
1) How does the cost of scratch compare to box. I pretty much always buy my boxes for $1 or less
2) TIME, that is the big thing for me, how much longer does it take to pull together a scratch cake than a mix?




1) It totally depends on the recipe, but since I assume you are doctoring your mixes, the price difference is most likely negligible.

2) Again, it totally depends on the recipe. Most scratch cakes are made with either a creaming or biscuit method, in which case the mixing time is about the same. But sponge cakes are much more involved and take a bit longer to put together. I just made a chocolate almond sponge that used 4 separate bowls and was very complex, but that is not the norm.

Rhondie asked if there are any scratch cakes that taste like boxed cakes- if there are I probably threw the recipes out! I think the main issue with scratch cakes for people who are used to boxed is mimicing the texture, and that is more difficult to do, since boxed mixes have emulsifiers and preservatives not commonly available to home bakers.

HTH!

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sweetamber Posted 15 Feb 2007 , 3:34pm
post #4 of 24

Oops- I just re-read your post and saw that you do not doctor your mixes. How many mixes do you need to use to get a 10" cake (4" high filled)?

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czyadgrl Posted 15 Feb 2007 , 3:47pm
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It does depend on the recipe you use.

I've been exploring the Whimsical Bakehouse recipes. All are scratch and take a tad bit longer than when I was doctoring mixes with the Enhanced Cake Formula recipe. Really, just a tad longer, maybe 5 minutes?

Since you're not doctoring the mixes now, you may notice a bit more of a time increase.

I think it just depends on what you want in the end and the reasons you're interested in changing to scratch cakes. You can always doctor mixes to get more flavors, there are lots of recipes here.

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alicegop Posted 15 Feb 2007 , 5:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetamber

Oops- I just re-read your post and saw that you do not doctor your mixes. How many mixes do you need to use to get a 10" cake (4" high filled)?




15 cups (3 boxes) which is less than $4 including eggs

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rhondie Posted 15 Feb 2007 , 9:59pm
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Yeah......the preservatives , hydrogenation, and other additives are precisely the reason I'd like to STOP baking premade cake mixes. I have made some cakes from scratch but they are dense and dry, so I must not be using a scrumptious recipes. I guess I go a little crazy spending all the time and effort on something that I think doesn't taste good. I know some people can taste a box cake a mile away but this is what I grew up one so........... hows about it,..... any light n' fluffy moist scratch cake recipes out there?

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mkolmar Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 2:13am
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The first few times you do scratch cakes will seem time consuming but they really are not. Boxed Cakes go way faster and you have more room for error than with scratch cakes. When making from scratch make sure you have everything completely level in the measuring cups, tps, TBSP. You'd be suprised what something a little less or more with throw off. Be patient and don't give up. Scratch cakes are more dense and they are moist, but the texture is different from a box mix cake so don't be shocked by that. (most people think scratch cakes are dry compaired to a mix cake but it's just that the texture is different)

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JanH Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 9:43am
post #9 of 24

Actually cake mix cakes are more moist than scratch cakes.

(Scroll down just past Answer)

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Desserts-747/BROWNIES.htm
(taken from allexperts.com - 1st link)

"One thing the site doesn't tell you about cake mixes, is the reason that they seem to be more moist than the cake you mix from scratch. The secret ingredient that cake mixes (and bakeries) use is something called "hi-ratio" shortening....also known as "cake shortening". This is a special emulsified shortening that allows the cake formula to have more sugar in it than if you used a regular shortening. The more sugar in a cake formula, the more moist the cake will be. Sugar is "hygroscopic", meaning it attracts and holds moisture. If you use hi-ratio shortening, you have to use a recipe that calls for hi-ratio shortening. You can't just take any old cake recipe and substitute hi-ratio for regular shortening or butter. You have to make other adjustments as well (like adding more sugar) and the way you mix the cake is different too.
You can't buy hi-ratio shortening at the grocery store....it's only available from bakery supply houses (at least in my area, anyway). One of the most common brand names is "Sweetex'.

There's lots of good scratch cake recipes out there, but you should never expect them to be like a cake mix, because without that special shortening you can't achieve the same result. It doesn't mean a cake mix is any better......it's just different."

For a scratch cake to be as moist as a box mix cake the recipe would have to use hi-ratio shortening (and more sugar) than the traditional scratch recipes:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Desserts-747/mositure-grain-texture.htm
(taken from allexperts.com - 2nd link)

"Generally, to obtain the best crumb in most cakes, cake flour is a must. It is very low in protein and hence makes for a finer grain. You also have to be careful when mixing your cake batter once the flour is added; too much mixing will develop whatever gluten is present in the flour and you don't want that.

Moisture is a different problem. Again, it depends on what type of cake you are making. Generally, the higher amount of sugar a cake batter can hold, the more moist it will be. Professional and commercial operations have access to something called "emulsified" or "hi-ratio" shortening. That is a type of shortening that allows cake batters to hold more sugar in an emulsion than a normal type of shortening. This is the primary answer to the question of why it seems so many bakery cakes seem to be moister than home-baked cakes.

There are other additions you can make to cake batters that add to moisture.....some people use cake recipes with pudding mixes added.....some recipes call for mayo or sour cream to be added. Some add fruit purees such as applesauce to reduce fat and add moisture.

It is not my recommendation to take a recipe that is written a certain way and add to it. When you do that, you mess up the "balance" of the formula. More so than any other baked product, cakes are scientifically balanced to come out a certain way. If you mess with ingredient amounts or add something to a recipe, your final result will be different than intended. Could be worse. Could be better. It's a gamble. If you are so inclined, and like to experiment and don't mind gambling a little, messing with a recipe can be fun. It might not always come out, but you learn something.

Personally, I like to try different recipes until I find one I like. If I do tweak the recipe, it is only slightly, like changing the addition of salt, more or less flour, a little more or less sugar, more or less leavening.....adding a different flavor extract....you get the idea."

Otherwise, it's comparing apples and oranges.

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Lazy_Susan Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 9:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanH

Actually cake mix cakes are more moist than scratch cakes.

(Scroll down just past Answer)

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Desserts-747/BROWNIES.htm

For a scratch cake to be as moist as a box mix cake the recipe would have to use hi-ratio shortening (and more sugar) than the traditional scratch recipes.

Otherwise, it's comparing apples and oranges.




Just to put my two cents worth in, my cakes are extremely moist and very well sought after by those that have tasted them. I make all my cakes from scratch. If a scratch cake comes out dry, it's because it has been overmixed. When I first started baking scratch cakes, the cakes were dry. Then when I discovered that you aren't supposed to mix the heck out of them they came out extremely moist.
I'm not saying that scratch is better that box. I think they are both fabulous. It's just that if you are going to make a moist cake from scratch you have to do it correctly. icon_smile.gif

Lazy_Susan

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JanH Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 10:16am
post #11 of 24

Before this thread goes off on a tangent which I never intended "which is better, scratch or mix" - I did say there was no way to compare the two.

Hence, the comparing apples to oranges analogy.

If you read the links, there is a scientific explanation given for the ingredients in box cake mixes which guarantees moistness.

These ingredients are not normally found or found in the same proportions in scratch cakes.

However, I never said scratch cakes weren't moist. (My comments are strictly limited to the difference in ingredients.)

And there's a liquid hi-ratio shortening called fluid flex - but I'm not even going to get into that, now.

Box mix and scratch recipes shouldn't be compared except mix to mix (by brand) and recipe to recipe (scratch).

I make both scratch and box mix cakes - both are fine by me.

Edited to add: There should probably be a third category for doctored cake mixes, by brand, and doctored recipe. And these box mix/recipes should not be compared to either box mix or scratch (recipes) either.

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Lazy_Susan Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 10:53am
post #12 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanH

Before this thread goes off on a tangent which I never intended "which is better, scratch or mix"




I don't think this thread will go off on a tangent about box vs. scratch. My comment wasn't intended that way and if it sounded like it was I'm sorry. I tried to be very careful in choosing my words. Like I said "I'm not saying that scratch is better that box. I think they are both fabulous". I was just trying to let people know that it is possible to make a moist scratch cake and that the important part is to not over mix.
Again, sorry if I sounded like I was trying to start something. That wasn't my intention.

Sincerely,
Lazy_Susan

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ChefAngie Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 2:05pm
post #13 of 24

I use cake mix and make scratch cakes; it all depends on what the clients order. Never had any complaints. You must remember not to BEAT THE BATTER too much. When the dry and wet ingredients come together the batter only needs to be mixed 2 minutes. That is with cake mix or scratch cakes.

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sweetamber Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 2:43pm
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by alicegop

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetamber

Oops- I just re-read your post and saw that you do not doctor your mixes. How many mixes do you need to use to get a 10" cake (4" high filled)?



15 cups (3 boxes) which is less than $4 including eggs




To answer your question, I think it will still depend on the recipe, but scratch will probably cost you about the same as mix. But if you're used to mix, and that's what your customers like, then you may not be satisfied with your results. If you don't want to go scratch, you might want to try doctoring your mixes. I know there are endless possibilities as far as flavors go, and you'll still get the box texture and flavor that you're accustomed to.

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SweetResults Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 2:50pm
post #15 of 24

I have to try again - tried the butter yellow cake from Whimsical Bakehouse the other day, the cupcakes fell apart as I tried to take them out of the pan (with liners) am I not supposed to put this batter in cupcake form?

They also seemed a bit dry - I am sure it was me. I will try again, but the cost of the butter alone outprices this cake for me as far as selling it to anyone compared to the cost of a mix. And people seem to think I bake from scratch and I don't even doctor have the time.

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alicegop Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 2:50pm
post #16 of 24

Thanks, I'm not planning on switching so much...... I am very happy with the box results I get. (and I work full time, am pregnant with my 3rd...... so it is easy and no one complains, in fact they always rave) but I am bored with the same old flavors and thought I would want to branch out my offerings to make myself different than what you can get at the grocery store......

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SweetResults Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 2:56pm
post #17 of 24

alicegop - one thing I have started doing recently is adding about a tsp of extract to my boxed mixes.

Banana Choc
Cocnut Choc
Raspberry Choc
Choc Mint
Also all above with Franch Vanilla

It is really adding to my list of flavors and the difference is amazing with no effort at all or change in the texture of the cake.

Give it a try!

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writer_mom Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 3:27pm
post #18 of 24

alicegop,

Have you ever tried the Cake Doctor cookbooks? There are some great recipes in these books for doctoring cake mixes. I own the books and I love the variety of cake flavors they offer. They even inspire me to come up with a few "doctoring" ideas of my own.

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chleonard Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 3:27pm
post #19 of 24

if you are looking for good scratch recipes, try out rose levy berenbaum's "the Cake Bible".

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czyadgrl Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 3:29pm
post #20 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweetResults

I have to try again - tried the butter yellow cake from Whimsical Bakehouse the other day, the cupcakes fell apart as I tried to take them out of the pan (with liners) am I not supposed to put this batter in cupcake form?

They also seemed a bit dry - I am sure it was me. I will try again, but the cost of the butter alone outprices this cake for me as far as selling it to anyone compared to the cost of a mix. And people seem to think I bake from scratch and I don't even doctor have the time.




I made this recipe 3 times in the past few weeks (first time using the recipe), but hopefully I can help some ... They do have a separate cupcake recipe in the book so maybe their others aren't intended to be used like that? I did 8-inchers, 6-inchers and some little 4" heart pans with no trouble. They were very sturdy once they had cooled, but DID seem very fragile until cooled all the way through.

I guess that's not really help ...

I just served a Whimsical Bakehouse Chocolate butter cake that was baked on Tuesday, wrapped in saran and put in the fridge on Wednesday and it was sooo soft, not at all dry. (I'm in the midst of a switch from box to scratch too). Very pleased with the results.

But definetly watch the mix time esp. on scratch cakes. It's easy to mix too much when adding things at different times, etc.

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JanH Posted 16 Feb 2007 , 7:18pm
post #21 of 24

For different flavoring ideas you could try this cake mix doctoring matrix:

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-50878.html

Doctoring cake mixes:

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-66313-.html

Cake mix add-ins:

http://cakecentral.com/cake-decorating-ftopict-68873-.html

HTH

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ladyonzlake Posted 17 Feb 2007 , 2:47am
post #22 of 24

I make both box and scratch. If it's a simple, white, chocolate, or yellow then it's the box (Duncan Hines). If it's something else like, white chocolate cake, chocolate chip cake ect. then I make it from scratch. I have found that both are delicious but the box mix will stay moist longer than scratch...probably because of the preservatives? Scratch does cost more than a mix, at least mine do as I use expensive ingredient such as butter, cake flour, cream cheese, sour cream and don't forget all the little ingredients which are already in your mix such and salt, baking powder & baking soda ect. (even though it's a little it adds up) where as a box mix is eggs, oil and water. If you want to expand then I say do both. Box mix is quicker where as scratch you're adding more ingredients and it's more of a science as to when to add you ingredients.
Jacqui

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ladyonzlake Posted 17 Feb 2007 , 2:49am
post #23 of 24

Oh and I LOVE the "Cake Bible". She has great recipes in it. One of my favorites are her berry puree's. I made the strawberry puree and added it to my IMBC...YUMMMM
Jacqui

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Loucinda Posted 18 Feb 2007 , 3:15am
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Quote:

I use expensive ingredient such as butter, cake flour, cream cheese, sour cream




Yes, I use those same ingredients in my doctored cake mixes - they cost the same (scratch vs. mix) no matter which route I take. I just prefer the cake mixes reliability - there is no guess work, they come out nice each time.

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